sick discus? stressed discus? not sure. please help

[dandaman352]

I've had my discus now for about a month (started with 3 of them) 2 were cobalts and 1 was a blue turqoise. One of the cobalts would beat regularly on the other one and the result was alot of fin clenching and the discus literally being pale white (no color on body, a little on face). I thought it was because of the bullying so I got 4 new discus and after a couple of days he's bullied less yet, his color is still nowhere to be found and his fins are almost always clenched. He eats very well and never lies around or acts funny. I don't know what their poo looks like or where it comes out from to give you a color of it. My water parameters are all up to par (82F, soft water, etc..). I'm very confused about it, I'm trying to get some pictures taken but its tough and my camera sucks so hopefully I'll be able to show you guys but for now any advice will be great.

Thanks

[scott bowler]

how is the fishes breathing , it could be a parasite , and what is your ph ,water temp may be a little low too ,

[grumpyguy]

You should raise the temp to 84 minimum regardless of anything else. The lower temp will make them more susceptible to illness. As far as the sick one, I wouldn't hazard a guess as I'm relatively new to discus as well. I'm sure someone will be able to help you out here though. Whenever one of mine looks a little 'off' without any real sign of illness, I add a little aquarium salt and raise the temp a bit to start with and see if that brings them around before I start hitting them with any meds.

regards.

[dandaman352]

He's breathing a little heavy, my temp is usually between 82-86 depending on if the heater just finished heating or is about to start heating. My PH is solid at 6.2 All the other fish seem to be fine except him, he looks miserable. I bought some quick cure incase you guys tell me its anything. So a fast response would be appreciated

[AHC]

Hey mate. Its always tricky diagnosing sick discus without the specifics. I also think the reasons are fairly limited for discus being unhappy in the first place. I put it down to a) environment - includes water changes with unsuitable water, tank placement etc B) Fish health - have they been wormed and treated for parasites etc.

There body will show you they are not happy and im not sure what your rutein is so i will just put some things down to check. Firstly, if you have not wormed and treated for parasites then i'll be doing that straight up. This should be done every six months and for new fish, done in quaratine. Also, loss of colour/darken of colour shows stress. This could be as simple as dumping cold water on top of them during water changes, putting same temp water in with a varient PH and later adjusting or a combination of these. It could be a combination of all of these with the bullying just adding to it. When discus are new, they will be a lil agressive to set the hierarchy order.

What is your ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates etc? Do you just have discus in your tank? E.g Angels, especially the black angels, pass off diseases to discus. Not all fish are suitable with discus for a number for reasons. Not sure what fish you have?

these are just soime questions to start off.

[dandaman352]

Ok well answering all these questions, first off i have 7 discus all except 1 at 2.5-3 inches the other is like 3.5. There are also 2 tri color sharks, 2 irredescents and 2 cory cats, and 2 elephant noses. (all peaceful and are bottom feeders in my tank except the sharks). All my other fish including the other 6 discus's are in perfect condition. I have not de-wormed or treated them for parasites. As I do not know how to do this, I bought quick cure which takes care of parasites and protozoans so I'll do that over the next couple of days.I do not have a tester for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates because I do routine water changes to keep my water perfect. I have an RO filter that keeps the water soft and my temp is 82-86 give or take.

I dont have another place to put the other fish for quaratine so anything needed to be done would have to be in my tank. I'll try to get a picture up, but for the record he has been like this almost since the first couple of days while everyone else is in great condition. He's not really bullied all that much anymore either with the presence of new fish. So tell me what you think..

[AHC]

okay, thanks for that. Just wanted to confirm that during water changes yoo match the temp of the new water to the old water as well as the PH. But if all your other discus are fine then im guessing you are doing this :)

My advice would be too treat the fish. Its is very common for discus to get worms and parasites. In Oz, we use Levamisole (Sykes Big-L for Poultry & Pigs works great or you can use other's with this main ingredient. Just make sure it is okay for aquarium use.) for Round Worm. We use Praziquantel (once again you can use different products with this ingredient - not sure for the US) for gill and body flukes and tape worm. There are heaps more info on this is the stickys in the illness and medications section of the fofum so wont go into it here again. Those threads are deffinately worth a good read because they will deffinitly come in handy. You can also see other peoples threads that have gone through this before. We all at one point or another have these same problems so its an interesting read.

I would treat with levamisole first then do a treatment with the Prazi. Secondly, and its up to you, getting a test kit is a good way to make sure you dont have any spikes with water quality. This just gives you the confidence to eliminate water quality when in doubt of what could be wrong. Your doing regular water changes so thats great. Any uneaten BH must be cleaned up so it doesnt faul the water too. Hope this helps mate. Good luck with it and let us know how you go. Some other people may be able to shed more light for you. :smurf

[dandaman352]

I'm still kind of confused and I more then appreciate the help Aaron. I don't want to just throw things in my tank you know? Do you guys have any idea what TYPE of parasite of whatever the fish could have so we can go from there? Also will the quick cure work? Its for ICK and for other parasites.

http://www.aquariumguys.com/quickcure1.html

ANY SORT OF HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATE AS I WOULD LIKE ALL MY FISHIES TO BE HAPPY. =)

[scott bowler]

dan i dont think i would use the quick cure with the elephant noses they may not like it , is the sick fish rubbing its gills on any thing or chocking in any way

[dandaman352]

Nope. Only thing I see is no color, fins clenched, and sometimes slightly heavy breathing. He eats like a pig.

[scott bowler]

dan i think you need to try and get a pic mate , so we might be able to see ,what we are up aganst , whats is poo like normal ? or white stringy , ?

[dandaman352]

Honestly, I dont really know how to look for the poo, or where it comes out from. I know that sounds silly but can if you can give me a quick rundown..

[AHC]

Yeah i completely understand. And we don't want you throwing just anything into your tank. Because we cant see a photo yet we are unsure. And even seeing a photo may not give us an answer. White stringy poos/red hairs usually means worms. White jelly/fluffy poos usually mean flagellets - these are just some symptons to watch out for. It can seem confusing i know. Reading the threads will give you more of an idea then we could as we cannot see any symptons. Worming will be ok, but treating for Ick should only be done if they have Ick. Another thing is, which im not experienced with, is some meds may harm your other fish. I recommend reading the threads to help you identify exactly. My hunch is a worming or gill flukes if you these fish have not been treated. Other then that if no other symptons are there, it could be the water?

[dandaman352]

I'll try to get a pic up asap. Where does the poo come from? I assume the back end but yeah..

[scott bowler]

Honestly, I dont really know how to look for the poo, or where it comes out from. I know that sounds silly but can if you can give me a quick rundown..
ok its ok on the fish it has a fin on the bottom of it that runs about mid way from its belly to its tail , were its starts is the vent that is were the poo comes from , the fin is called a anal fin , if it is eating it should be pooing , so next time it is feed have a look to see if it does a poo if it looks ok(not like jelly or white or stringy oh that is if you arent feeding it live worms ) then there is some thing else we need to look at.

[dandaman352]

thanks, im watching them and will post when I see him poop. I appreciate all the help guys, I'm sure I can be a little annoying at times..

[scott bowler]

no its all good if you dont ask you wont know

[AHC]

Hi, Please excuse my drawing skills. I was busted doing this at work and im sure they think i have some kind of sick obsession with discus now.

[dandaman352]

lmao. Thanks buddy. So far of all the ones pooping they are black, but the sick one hasn't pooped yet.

[dandaman352]

His poop is normal colored. I'm out of ideas.

[ILLUSN]

i'm going to guess your NO3 is too high, discus can handel a NO3 of up to 30 (dads tank has 30 cause of the filtration on it), i have 2 BD's that look just as you described once it gets to 10-15, all others prefectly ok.

do a big water change, infact to 3 big changes (40%+) over 3 days and see if there is any improvment.

set your temp to 30C, add salt 1 tsp/40L.

introduce some live brineshrimp, dont be stingy with it, you've got enough bottom fedders to clean up any mess, and with 1 tsp of salt/10gal they'll survive for around 2-3 hours. once he starts eating again I'm sure he'll have color.

a good trick is to feed up the brineshrimp before you feed them, use spirolina powder, or a good brineshrimp food to load them up for an hour or so. that way the fish gets the best possible nutrition from them.

[dandaman352]

40 liters = 10 gallons?

[ILLUSN]

yep 40L = 10 US gal (10 UK gal is 45L)

[dandaman352]

Ok I just did the first water change, so far so good. I dropped in some prime. About feeding them the brineshrimp I dont have access to that live stuff here in NYC. So if you have an alternative to feed them I'd appreciate it.

Also whats the point of adding salt? I never do that.

[ILLUSN]

the salt helps rebuild lost slime, lowers the osmotic preassure, inhibits pathogens on the skin, detoxifies N02 and in my tanks atleast helps stimulate appitite.

you could try hatching your own, but they wont be ready in time, you might have to try live worms instead to get them eating, but then you run the risk of a worm infection.

[dandaman352]

I dont really have any problems feeding them, that garlic guard I bought does the trick on almost anything anyway. Is feeding some beefheart ok? Or hikari bloodworms ok.

[ILLUSN]

Beefheart mix is better then plain blood worms, more nutrition (especially vitamins to promote their metabolisum),

blood worms are also great for stimulating appitite.

[dandaman352]

random side note question.. after a good beefheart feeding, the tank usually gets pretty dirty whats the best way to clean up so it dosen't turn to ammonia?

I really want my discus to grow, I've had my first ones for like a month now and have noticed nothing.

[the german]

maybe you BH is too fine,mine is all gone after a few minutes.
do you make your own or did you buy it?

[dandaman352]

I bought it from a breeder/hatchery. (discusmadness.com if you want to see whats in it)

I can't really make it myself, and I've been doing many water changes because of it, as I'd like to see some growth..

[the german]

yeah thats good, but maybe try a different BH and see if its better.
when they eat all in 5 min. there should be next to nothing left

[dandaman352]

gotcha. any side advice on how i can get my lil buddies to grow or how you notice if they grow

[dandaman352]

since apparently the water changes haven't been working Im gonna try to get a good picture of the fish.. except it keeps coming out blurry. Any tricks to getting a good clear pic up.. i see some of you have it mastered.

[AHC]

wow, the water changes are not working either. I really thought that was going to be it! Sorry mate, try posting the picture for people to look at. I can tell mine are growing through their pattern change through previous photos. Their pattern slightly changes, they get fatter looking at them straight on and their overall look is heavier.