??ARE*THEY*BREEDING??

[Andy123]

Hi everyone.
I woke up this morning early and when I turned my fish tank lights on all the fish were tired and adjusting to the light. I came back aproximately 20minutes later and found one of my red/blue turquise pecking at a peice of driftwood and then running its belly along it. It kept doing this. I soon noticed a longer breeding tube about 0.7cm long(7mm ish). I was amazed when I saw this and thought I may have some eggs this afternoon. Looking from a distance, I saw some shaking/flickering when another discus(also a blue/red turq) came near the driftwood. This second dicus stayed around for a little bit but didn't do anything. This discus pecked it a little bit on the side of the body but nothing else. Only one of the discus had a spawnig tube droped. The one shimmering and cleaning the driftwood.

The discus are still fairly young. I have had them for about 8 months I think and they are currently about 12cm long(just a guess).

This afternoon, there were no eggs, and no spawning tubes.

I have another discus for over two years. It was king of the tank. However, this morning I found he had a few small abrasions. There was one on his forehead, one just above the lateral line and one at the back end of his dorsal fin. They looked like scales missing and red in colour.

There are three discus in the tank and one bristlenose. 165L plantedtank(if spawnings occur I will move the pair. Tank is getting re-stocked)

QUESTIONS
(1)does it sound like I have a pair?
(2)does it sound like they did lay eggs?
(3)when should I expect this to occur again?
(4)does it sound like they were breeding?just inexperienced parents?
(5)How will I know when I have a true pair?
(6)Would adding another discus be a bad idea at this point in time?(I was going to get one soon, but now I am not sure. I know three is not a good number to have especially when breeding. This discus would help reduce aggression on the odd-one-out but not solely for that purpose. It wasd always ment to be a community tank and I will get another tank to breed.)
(7)How can I trigger spawning?
(8)The two fish that near driftwood were bought at the same time from the same shop. One was in the front of the shop but one was in the back in quarentine tanks out the back because they always quarinteen the fish when they first arrive. Would they be brother andd sister? Will this effect fry in the future(if they do breed)?
(anything else I should know?)

Thanks everyone in advance!!
(PS sorry for the long post.)

[ILLUSN]

(1) YES
(2) not nesiscarily, could have been practise runs, finding their feet as they are young fish
(3) when ever they feel like it, the approach of a storm or a water change will also help
(4)yes
(5) when you have nice fertilised eggs after 2 days
(6) shouldn't be a problem, make sure you quarentine it first, no point in wiping out a tank with a new pair in it.
(7) a good water change with a lower ph ( I like 5-5.5) and a lower temp (i like 28C vs 30C that the breeding tanks run at), if you can time it with the approach of a storm that will also help.
(8) could be from the 1 batch, if they are siblings they might throw some strange looking fry (deformaties in shape) also they could lock in their present characteristics (patterns color etc) for the next batch (the F2's if they are infact siblings) either way you wont know till you grow up some fry.

[Andy123]

well its currently raining in sydney atm so i think that triggered it. could i expect this to happen again within 24 hours if they were keen?or will i need to wait a week or month etc? i did a 40%w/c today this arvo. is it likely to be female that started this "practise" run or male? i think it is female but as i has never seen a males spawning tube in first person i cannot be sure. altho i am definatly leaning towards female as it looks more like the pics of females i see.

thanx for the quick reply

[John H]

Andy

Sunday's storm must have had a definate effect. I did a water change just after the storm came through Lake Macqurie around 3.00pm by 5.00pm I had a new pair lay eggs and do all the right thing, untill Monday and they decided the eggs looked far too yummy (all gone) it was there first time so could be expected.
Waiting for the next storm LOL

[Andy123]

[Andy123]

yesh. the forcast is in our favour...lots of rain commin in the next few days but there is alot of sun atm.

so wot do i need to know for next time? no eggs were laid. was it just pairing or are they a lil immature to hav gotton eggs? i havnt seen any pairing behaviour since but i am still eagerly waiting. fingers crossed i get eggs fertilised eggs. even if they get eaten a few days or hours later atleast they would hav been further and are in the learning.

should i add somthing(like cardinal) so that they will hav practise defending or should i keep as is? im new to breeding so i need to know as much as i can so i will be prepared. i hav already read the stickies and a number of pages on the internet but may be missing somthing or need to get somthing re-enforced.

thanx again

[ILLUSN]

Leave them be, if they are "practise spawning" then everything is fine, it may take them 2-10 goes to get it right anyway, when, you get wrigglers, that are free swimming, its time they go into their own tank.

[Andy123]

should i put a upturned pot in there so they hav a choice where top put em? i hav been feeding 3times a day of bloodworms(frozen) or bs(frozen) instead of 1bs or bw and 1tetra colour bits. the storms are still around. thats good for them. i am strill doin frequent wc(every second day) of 30%ish.

is parallel swimming and pecking at the sides of a discus pairing behaviour? they seem to do both of these alot more now then a month ago or more. i occasionally see a flicker but thats when all the discus are together so i dont know which 2 will pair. except i know 2 are spending a lil more time together(parallel swimming and just hanging) but tyhem the third discus is around em quite often to.
i havnt seen any bowing either but hope to soon.
thanx again

[ILLUSN]

a pot wouldn't hurt.

[Andy123]

Hi again.
Last night I was watching them two of them were shaking to each other and pecking and so on. Then my other came along between the two and started shaking. This made one go away but come back soon after and shake between the two then the two. The one which had been shaking for a while left and these two continued shaking, cleaning etc. Then they all shake in a group.

What is this behaviour I am seeing? Are they all just trying to find a partner?


ANY HELP APPRECIATED!

[ILLUSN]

maybe the other fish just wants in on the action, kinda like Samirs heckels

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14552

[Merrilyn]

It's all part of the learning process.

They're still working things out. Give them another month or two, and you should see a definate pair emerge.

You can't rush nature. It will happen in good time.
:P

[Andy123]

hi all and thanx for all your help so far.
i did a large water change with cooler water yeaterday.
last niute when i went to turn the lights off i nooticed alot of cleaning goin on. so i turned the lights off but left the room light on and watched for a while. after about 15minutes I HAD EGGS!! the female was running up the driftwood and practising and then i saw a few eggs(10ish) then i looked at her tube...more comming out. i moved bak and watched from a distance 10 eggs soon turned into 30 and 30 to even more. another discus (i hope a male(this seems to be the pair)) was originally cleaning the driftwood with the female and shaking and etc but when the eggs came he was waitin nearby and would push the female out of theway and eat the eggs. he was pushing his head into the side of her body . the female was still laying. this happened a few times. i suspect that i had well over 100+ eggs throughout the 45minutes she was laying.
i do really hope that it was a male eating the eggs and that time will help him to get it right. ohh well it was his first time and the females too. the female didnt eat any eggs and i guess as the pair mature they will get strong and fight off the other fish in the tank and raise many batches of babies.

the discus standing near(unsure of male or female...hope male) had been flirting with the female that laid and the other discus was over away from the action. they regularly shake and spend a lil more time together. the one nearby that ate the eggs didnt fertilise any. but this was a first so they still did great!

i guess its just time and patience until i see freeswimmers:P i dont know if the unknown sex of the pair is mature enouf yet to hav fertilised the eggs(altho he is bigger than the female). i believe that male discus take longer to mature than females rite?

time will tell if i hav a pair that will lay many eggs and raise many fry! wot do u think my chances are? do u think that the discus near the female is male? i sure hope so. i will get some pics soon