What type of white gravel won't increase PH?

[ivo]

Hi everyone, my new tank comes with a black colour foam at the bottom of the tank. Discus tends to darken themselves if the environment is dark and thats exactly what happened to my discus. Then i used white marble chip as gravel to cover the black bottom and discus's body colour have lighten and colour up like normal. Unfortunately, even a very thin layer of the white marble chip have increased PH a lot so i removed it. Could anyone suggest whether there is any type of white gravel out there that i can use to cover the black bottom tank without increasing the PH?

I really don't want to empty out the whole tank and change to white foam since tank is new and only has completed cycling. Thank you.

[locksmith999]

hi there try a thin layer of pool filter sand or similar, say about 10-15mm that shouldnt have to much impact on ya ph although i run glass bottom discus tanks and have dare i say it over filtrated tanks best of luck keep us posted
regards locksmith :D

[ivo]

thanks. where can i buy pool filter sand? is it white colour? because of the black foam not just the discus look darker but the whole tank looks darker too.

[ILLUSN]

ivo head off the clarke rubber you'll pay about $12 a 20kg bag for pool filter sand.

its a very light colour, a soft yellow white.

I've got 1/2 a bag here you can have for free if you fancy a trip to penrith.

[flaggy]

I bought pool filter sand from Clark Rubber. Very cheap. A nice light colour - see my picture below

[the german]

silica sand will do it :D soils ant soils 20kg $3.80 :D washed!

[ivo]

thank you all. now there are two choices to choose from fantastic! i better ring my cousin to see whether he wants to be a labour for the day. i had an operation on my neck to cut bone off disc 12 days ago so can't carry anything heavy. thanks again guys.

[Mattzilla]

i use pool filter sand and it's great

anyone know if you could use very fine white sand from a beach??? or would it muck with the water?

thanks
matt

[ILLUSN]

beach sand is derived from shells, it will stuff your water.

[the german]

:shock: not all from shells mate but you risk to get lots of stuff in it so better dont use it.
silica sand is very fine and very cheap as well :D

[Tracey73]

I went to Clark Rubber yesterday, they had only one sort of pool filter sand but they could not tell me if it was silica based? is all pool filter sand silica based or ok to use?

[ILLUSN]

Not all pool filter sand is silica based, you can also get zeolite sand for pool filters. zeolite is usually sold in 15kg bags and silica in 20kg bags (in a pool filter 15kg of zeolite has the same capacoty as 20kg of silica sand).

non zeolite sands are silica based as it doesn't influence the pools water chemistry.

[TW]

silica sand is very fine and very cheapI'm looking for a white sand too, that doesn't send pH up. Is silica sand whiter than pool sand, as pool sand is more yellow than I'd like. I'd like something as white looking as the whitest of the white coral sands, but of course that is no good for my purpose (being for a discus / apisto tank)

[Hollowman]

I use pool sand here in the UK, and it i s a yellowy colour, looks good though and wont change your Ph.

Hollowman

[TW]

thanks for quick reply Hollowman. I have ADA Bright sand in the tank already, which is yellowish & similar to the pool filter sand I've seen.

I'd really like something whiter - if there is such a white sandy looking substrate that doesn't send pH up?

If there is, I'd love to hear of it?

[ILLUSN]

Pool filter sand is silica sand, its a very pale yellow to white in color.

[TW]

I'll go have a look. It's just that my son had what was sold to him as pool filter sand, and it was yellowish. He has just removed it & replaced it with a white coral sand - ok for him as it's for african cichlids. It looks so much nicer than his old pool filter sand. Maybe he was just sold a dud batch. Where can I go to have a look at pool filter sand - pool shops? Sorry, that's probably a silly question.

[ILLUSN]

If you can get out to penrith drop by for a cuppa and you can have a look, I'm using it in one of my tanks, its a VERy slight yellow to it, it looks very natural. I tried to take a photo, but the color's always diffrent in real life to how it looks on my PC.

another sand you can try is silver sand. Just a warning though, this sand is VERY white (silver white)and VERY fine, it would discolor easily and compacts very easily, if all you were using was a thin layer on the base of the tank 9say 5mm or so0 i'm sure it would be fine.

[Hollowman]

Also finer sand will suck up more easily, the filter sand I have drops out of my vacuum after it gets sucked in and cleaned.

[TW]

If you can get out to penrith drop by for a cuppa and you can have a lookThanks this offer :D I can't think when I'll likely to be that way next, though I bet you've great some great tanks/discus for visitors to drool over.

Dumb question, probably, but where do you buy Pool filter sand (silica sand). I asked them at Bunnings & they didn't know what I was talking about. Do I go to a pool shop?

[flaggy]

i got mine from Clark Rubber

[TW]

Thanks Flaggy - would you call it a fairly white coloured sand?

There's a clark rubber not far from me, so that's nice & handy.

[flaggy]

hi TW,

Mine was fairly light in colour - you can see how it looks in the pic that i put up on this thread (the one with a cory panda in Page 1).... :)

Cheers
flaggy

[TW]

Hi Flaggy, is there meant to be a link to your thread? I can't see it.

[flaggy]

hi TW, the pic is in first page of this same thread - sorry if that's a bit confising :). Anyway, here it is again:

http://discusforums.com/forum/files/sand.jpg

[TW]

Thanks flaggy. That looks just like what I'd like. Sadly, when I rang Clark Rubber, it was the first of a series of pool supply shops telling me they have moved away from silica pool sand. They are changing to a mineral sand containing zeolite (spelling ???). They tell me the colour is clay like, or red. Will keep trying, but so far nothing close to me seems to have the right stuff.

[scott bowler]

TW some of the smaller pool shops will still have silica sand , try one of them .

[TW]

Thanks Scott, yes, I'm doing that. It was one of the smaller ones that told me the industry is moving away from silica. But I've only tried Clark Rubber plus 3 small shops so far, so still still lots more shops to try.

[TW]

I've found a place with a couple of bags. Says the grade is 15/30. Is that the grade I should be looking for?

[ILLUSN]

i got mine from clarke rubber, but most pool shops have it, at least they do around my way.

[taksan]

16/30 White gravel .....

[TW]

i got mine from clarke rubber, but most pool shops have it, at least they do around my wayClarks was 1st place I tried. Besides never having heard of silica (common issue) they tell me theirs is clay coloured. Most other small pool shops tell me they are moving away from what they call the "old style" sand & are using the new mineral ones (zeolite ???). They say it's not white/yellow but darker - more brown or clay. Still have more shops to try ringing, but that's the trend.

They don't know what I'm talking about when I say "silica" based. The stuff I found, he couldn't say it was silica, only that it's the old type, not new mineral type, that it's yellowish white & he has only 2 bags of it.
16/30 White gravel ..... Taksan, is there much difference between 15/30 and 16/30 grade sand. Maybe I heard wrong anyway, but in case that's what he did say, is 15/30 grade out of the question?

Think I'm getting closer to finding it, after wasting cash on 2 other expensive sand choices I don't like (sigh). Trying to get the look right, before I fill it (the tank).

Thanks heaps for the help, Robyn.

[flaggy]

hi, i needed some more sand, so i checked with my local clark rubber in mascot.

they still have it. the sand i had earlier bought was labelled "blue circle brand" specialised sand, 1 mm in size.

the store in brookevale also confirmed they had it.

Maybe just ask for the "specialised sand" - both store understood what i meant and confirmed it was silica based.

http://flaggy.wemmit.net/ss.jpg

[TW]

Thanks Flaggy. I might try my local clark rubber store again. Now that I have a product name to quote, I might get a different answer.

[TW]

Still no go at my closest Clark's, but Caringhbah is not far away & they stock it. Apparently, Clark Rubber are franchises and each store can & does stock differently.

flaggy, thanks so much for the info & the picture. It helped a lot.

Did you find it needs many rinses with water to get it clean?

[flaggy]

Yes. I kept stirring and changing water till clear, working with a manageable amount at a time.

[TW]

Flaggy, I sent my daughter to Clarks at Caringbah today to pick it up for me. The bag is different, but the same brand & same words, so I guess it is the same stuff, with new packaging.

Hoping to check if your's says the same as mine on the back of the pack.

CONTENTS Specialised Sand 100%.
Note: Ingredients may contain respirable Crystalline Silica.
Specialised Sand will usually contain <1% respirable Crystalline Silica
Does this mean my sand is less than 1% silica. Have I got the wrong stuff?

Thanks Robyn

[flaggy]

hi Robyn

Mine says the same thing. The key word is "respirable"... I think all it means is that less than 1% of it is dust that can be breathed in and cause problems.

If you have a dust mask or similar, it might help. Also be careful with the eyes or rubbing the sand into the eyes...

cheers
Tim

[TW]

Thanks, I was hoping that's what it meant. Thanks quick reply.

[TW]

Flaggy, have you seen my 7ft tank? Sand will only make up a portion of the substrate. I bought 2 x 20kg bags. I think it should be enough???

[flaggy]

Hi, I used about half a bag to cover my 99cm long tank with about 1 cm of the sand. I suspect 2 bags should be enough for you, given that you will also be using other type of substrate - but I'm not 100% sure.

Maybe others who have experience with large tanks like yours may be able to give a more definitive answer...

[Hollowman]

TW, I think that would be loads. Sorry if I missed it, but are you intending to try to plant in this tank?
If not, I bought a 25kg bag for my 4ft tank and only used maybe 15kg max. You only need 1/2" layer of sand all over really, more than this you can get pockets of anerobic sand, casuing a toxic build up. You can see this by noticing bubbles rising where the sand has got too deep. But with regular cleaning you will be fine.
hth

Hollowman

[TW]

Thanks flaggy & Hollowman.

Yes, it is planted, but not in the areas with sand. The sand forms the beach or river separating two planted substrate areas (ADA aquasoil).
You only need 1/2" layer of sand all over really, more than this you can get pockets of anerobic sand, casuing a toxic build up. You can see this by noticing bubbles rising where the sand has got too deep. But with regular cleaning you will be fine.Hmmm, there's always something I get wrong. At the very front, I can probably keep it at 1/2", but this set up has the sand meeting the ADA planted sections, so sand gets deeper as it goes further back into the tank. Off centre, there is a sand area that goes all the way to tank rear wall, so at that point sand will be quite deep.

If I make sure I always deeply gravel vac, will it be ok? I could put sand coloured gravel substrate underneath the sand at the deepest sections. Would that make any difference?

BTW, this sand is filthy stuff. The water I'm cleaning it with goes a brown colour that you can't see through. You wouldn't want to make the mistake of putting this in without washing it.

Thanks for the info.

[taksan]

[quote=ILLUSN]Taksan, is there much difference between 15/30 and 16/30 grade sand. Maybe I heard wrong anyway, but in case that's what he did say, is 15/30 grade out of the question?

.

16/30 is a white completely neutral PH wise crushed GRAVEL ... designed for aquarium or ornamental garden use. It looks like sand but it is actually a man made crushed product and unlike pool filter sand its white ...really white I mean its WHITE .... looks sensational, works great as its heavier then sand and doesn't "puff up" when you gravel vac it, costs a bit but I used to use it exclusively before I decided my fish are prettier then any aquascape and I went bare bottom.

[Hollowman]

So are we saying this stuff is white then Taksan?........ok, I'll get my coat :wink:

[TW]

darn - wish I'd waited for your reply. I have the pool filter sand, which is nice, but white/yellow

Really WHITE is what I would have preferred. Where do you get this 16/30 grade gravel/sand. It sounds sensational.

[jesx57]

I have sand in my tank, much easier to clean than gravel!

[PhoenixStar]

i'm using the blue gravel at the moment, should i change it to white color?

[Hollowman]

i'm using the blue gravel at the moment, should i change it to white color?

Its up to you really. From a water quality point of view, sand is better imo. From a colour point of view, this can have differing effects on how your fish show their colours. Discus are able to change their colour to try to fit in to their environment, it can show up as peppering in pigeon blood based fish or stress (mood) bars in blue based fish.

The choice is yours

H :)

[PhoenixStar]

So, if i'm using the blue gravel my discus will turn to be darker? i have 1 mozaic, pigeon blood and 2 albino snakeskin at the moment. the pigeon blood already been cover a bit by the peppering in the body. it's the gravel will turn my other discus to be darker?