Pesticide in fry tank

[ILLUSN]

Yesterday i found a dead cockaroach in my fry tank, this wouldn't be too big a deal except that we just put down some roach baits on the weekend.

all the fry were BLACK, huddled in the corner near the filter intakes, those that were swimming were swimming erraticly, darting, then tumbling through the water.

i've done 2 90% changes (and used all my aged water), i've added carbon to the filter. this morning i pulled up 4 dead rose reds and 2 dead pigions (rr ~3-4cm pb ~2cm).

checked the water and nh3 and no2 are 0, no3 is also 0 (proably due to the massive change)

will the pesticide in the roach baits kill the biofilter, or just the fish?

asside from more big daily changes (i have capacity to do daily 90% on that tank and still maintain the other fish) is there anything else i can do, it would be a real shame to loose all the Rose red fry.

[Barry N]

Sorry to hear about the dead roach poisoning the tank :cry:

Diluting the pesticide with the water changes you are doing and by running plenty of carbon etc will help the fish, but don't know about the filter bacteria. If you got to it quickly it may have been diluted enough so that it did'nt have a major impact - not sure though...

Good Luck. Let us know how you go.

[Merrilyn]

Oh heck, that's terrible news.

Mate I wouldn't be taking any risks with that tank. I'm not sure if it will destroy your bio filter or not, but if the bait produces an oily residue on the dead cockroach, that may well now be on the walls of the tank and in the filter, despite the minute amounts involved.

I'd be doing a serious scrub down of that tank with bleach, after removing the fry to a clean holding tank. Toss out any airstones, airline tubing or anything plastic in the tank, and start again with a clean filter and some used filter media from an another tank.

[Matt15]

Oh no...!!! My dad lost his largest pride and joy (Snakeskin Discus) to a bated cockaroach. Biggest upset was that he put the roach in the tank himself. :cry:

Fingers crossed for you ILLUSN that your filter hasn't been effected and the water changes/carbon work.

[boost.puppy]

Illusn, I'm so sorry to hear about that! If my new tank was up & running (seeing as though we're practicially neighbours) I would offer it to you in a heart beat, have you got a spare tank to put them in???
I'm thinking the vinegar & elbow grease might be coming out this long weekend!

[fishgeek]

insecticide will only kill the fish not the filter

andrew

[Th0mas]

Sorry to hear what's happened. Guess what you're doing is already the best can be done. Good luck.

[samir]

what a pity mate, its best to net and transfer to new tank in such cases. the wc's don't help that much. good luck with them.

[ILLUSN]

thanks all

1st problem: my spare tank was converted to a plant grow out tank with no heater and will tke some time to set up for fish.

2nd problem my QT tank is already to go for some wilds i'll be recieveing on monday, so that tank is out too.

got home from work today and there were 4 more dead, 2 more practicly dead.

on the plus side 1/2 the remaining fish are on the mend, schooling and swarming me as i approach the tank, they are eating, gave another 90% change tonight and will change the carbon to morrow.

Andrew, your right the poision attacks the nervous system as bacteria dont have one i assume they'll be ok.

[locksmith999]

im sorry to hear that discus are to special to lose when its out of your hands but i guess what can ya do bloody roaches if only they were as easy to kill as marines lol :cry:

[locksmith999]

im sorry to hear that discus are to special to lose when its out of your hands but i guess what can ya do bloody roaches if only they were as easy to kill as marines lol :cry:

[scott bowler]

sorry to hear about these guys jothy ,i hope you can pull a few of them through

[JoeDiscus85]

im sorry to hear that discus are to special to lose when its out of your hands but i guess what can ya do bloody roaches if only they were as easy to kill as marines lol :cry:


Huh??

[eykw]

Oh no J, this can't be true! I must have missed this thread till now. I am so sorry to hear what happened.

[Greggy]

Thats no good ILLUSN!

Most pesticides are made from chemicals known as anticholinesterase compounds and to insects these are lethal at even small doeses. I would imagine that depending on the particular chemical it could be toxic to fish although the amount actually on a cockroach diluted in a tank full of water would be extremely small, but obviously it was enough to have had a very bad impact. It would have acted on the fish's CNS and probably stopped their breathing action and/or hearts from beating.

You may be interested in reading this http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1439-0426.2004.00607.x

Now I would doubt it would affect filter bacteria but I'm not 100% sure.

Some fish medication are actually made from these kinds of chemicals however the type of chemical used and its concentration are obviosuly fish-safe (in most cases). One strange side effect of such medications is that it 'turns off' the ability for the skin of the fish to show colours, so most fish turn very pale (or even white) when treated with anticholinesterase based medications.

Good luck sorting it out, but I would say a few more big water changes and it will all be ok in a few weeks.

Regards,

Greggy

[ILLUSN]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

fish are recovering nicely, i'd say from the lot i've got 16 in VERY good shape, another 10 in not soo good shape and 8 with permenant neurological problems.

as you've described greggy, they seem unable to maintain their color, they go from white to black at the drop of a hat, they dart around sideways across the top of the water and tunble through it as if they were doing barrel rolls, they still eat they just shy away when black and float arouind when white

I lost most of the bigger fry, mind you i sware some of these tried to eat the dead roach.

i havn't lost anymore fry in the last week and a half so I'm down to about 60%.

both the pigion fry (which i worked so hard to artificially raise) and the rose red fry seem equally effected.

[tanzy]

I am so glad to hear that you saved some of your precious fry. I cant believe that through all of that you still spent time to help people on the forum, including me. I am so grateful for all of your help and advice. I am sure the remaining fry will grow to be beautiful fish.

All of my bests of wishes

Kell

[Greggy]

Keep nursing the affected fish and in about a week or two the pesticide will break down and the fish should recover quite well. Any that don't should be euthanised.

Regards,

Greggy

[fishgeek]

i wonder whether atropine would have been any use

it is antidote in mammals or OP toxicity
pretty late and not likely that you can get hold of anyway

[Tracey73]

I am so glad to hear that you saved some of your precious fry. I cant believe that through all of that you still spent time to help people on the forum, including me. I am so grateful for all of your help and advice.

I totally agree! Your a gem Illusn, thankyou for helping me through my nightmare whilst going through your own.. hope one day I will know enough to help you out :)