red gills n white occationally poo

[djceri_g]

one of my fish has been looking quite ill for a while now, its still eating but it looks more pale compared to the others. Also his gils are very red and occationally see white poo. all the others are okay. The water stats are okay.

I have recently treated for internal bacteria using Interpet No9. I am constantly changing 40% of the water every other day. Ive just bought a uv filter.

Last night I wormed the fish and instantly noticed this fish looked sensetive to the treatment. It started flikering. I think i will add a carbon spounge and to a big water change tonight.

I have also noticed for a while now that the fish does ocationally flash.

Any sugesstions?

[ILLUSN]

sounds like flukes to me, hows the breathing?

[djceri_g]

the breathing is okay really. Im sure the wormer i am using at the moment treates flukes. I have recently been using Flubenol 15 and to be honest im convinced it doesnt work! this is the one I dosed with last night

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/THE-NEW-WORMER-PLUS-1-000-gal-pack-aquatic-fish-wormer_W0QQitemZ370012171655QQihZ024QQcategoryZ667 95QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[JoeDiscus85]

howd the fish make out?

[djceri_g]

howd the fish make out?

I dont understand what your asking Joe, sorry.

[JoeDiscus85]

Sorry man how did the fish favor is he still alive?

[djceri_g]

ye, still alive and eating, but like I noted, since adding the wormer last night, hes gone rather shy, usually he attacks my hands when feeding but this morning he wasnt very interested and hiding. But he did eat some flakes! I recently lost one on my fish! that one looked like this one is now, pale and red gills. all the rest are fine! bright and boysterous!! but occationally see some flashing n flikering

[JoeDiscus85]

You know im going through the exact same thing here. Ive got 3 other discus in the tank and they all seem to be taking the meds fine but the one sick guy he is real shy like you were saying ive read posts that when you are treating them with meds like dewormers and such it may be sometime before they get their regular appetite back. Keep us updated.

Joe

[djceri_g]

and i know now, once i clean all the water free from any form of medicine, the fish will be happy! but its gills are still red and he looks pale! I really dont want to loose another fish!! but you read the link above and look at what the new wormer treats and it says it treated Hex aswell! so hopefully this will sort him out!

[ILLUSN]

dont go too crazy with the meds, they need to be at the right concentration to work propperly and at those concentrations, mixing drugs can wipe out your filter bacteria, if that happens you're in for a VERY tough time as discus demand exceptional water quality (last time i wiped out a filter was doing 2x daily changes of 150%, its not fun you'll have no sleep and your fish will hate every second of the month or so it takes for the filter to recover).

[djceri_g]

dont worry about that, i have two tanks! one for emergency! well, it is rather on the small side for all my fish! lol and its wormer stuff im treating so ideally people worm their fish every few weeks? but i have been treating them with internal bacteria meds.

maybey im too cautios? but if this new worming stuff isnt going to help my sick fish well maybey i will have to put him into a hospital tank and make sure i know whats wrong with him and thentreating it with the right meds. I really dont want to loose another fish!!!

[djceri_g]

what am i going to do with this fish? ive just noticed this morning a hue white stringy poo comming out!!!

[ILLUSN]

if you've wormed the fish there isnt much you can do aside from giving exceptional water quality.

if the poo is "fluffy" you can try metro in the food 1g/100g but if its long and stringy its proably dead worms comming out from the medication.

[djceri_g]

thank you very much illusn, i shall keep you updated. the poo was very long and stringy!! actually about 4 inches long!!

[JoeDiscus85]

Since ive wormed with a prazi metro cocktail from jungle i havent seen a single poop from my sick discus he isnt eating the medicated food but he seems active im waiting to see him pass some worms...


Joe

[djceri_g]

just an update, i added a carbon and did 40% w/c two days on a row and my sick fish seems to have brighteded up! has been munching a lot of beef heart today and is back like normal!! but still looking very pale and the gills are stilll rather pink. i will keep doing water changes every night

[fishgeek]

just a few late observations (lucky me has been sking!)

flubenol 15, 50 whatever it is being marketed as and the product you linked have the same active ingredient...
in fact anyone in england making a big fuss about legality will be selling the same thing

i think , we had a heated discussion on this forum about this, i linked some articles about dubious efficacy of flubenol against some protozoa and also some trematodes... the real problem is i dont specifically know the fluke species involved in parasitism of discus and i cant find much data other than in farmed fish.... leaves a lot of assumption rather than fact

andrew

oops forgot the red gill list
not much actually leads to increased redness of gills, short term irritation might though in general inflammation/irritation of the gills leads to excess mucous and therefore dulling or mottled palour of the gill surface

flicking would make me look at water borne irritants, measured or otherwise and your use of carbon and increased changes should help there, or alternatively external parasitism

does the fish in question puff or have flared operculae?

ideally a gill mount and microscopic examination would aid
though maybe praziquantel would prove more effective than flubendazol? it should be available in wales as droncit dog wormer
probably available readily on line too as many internet pharmacies are flouting prescription regulations willy nilly in the uk at present


hth

[/list]

[djceri_g]

just a few late observations (lucky me has been sking!)

flubenol 15, 50 whatever it is being marketed as and the product you linked have the same active ingredient...
in fact anyone in england making a big fuss about legality will be selling the same thing

i think , we had a heated discussion on this forum about this, i linked some articles about dubious efficacy of flubenol against some protozoa and also some trematodes... the real problem is i dont specifically know the fluke species involved in parasitism of discus and i cant find much data other than in farmed fish.... leaves a lot of assumption rather than fact

andrew

oops forgot the red gill list
not much actually leads to increased redness of gills, short term irritation might though in general inflammation/irritation of the gills leads to excess mucous and therefore dulling or mottled palour of the gill surface

flicking would make me look at water borne irritants, measured or otherwise and your use of carbon and increased changes should help there, or alternatively external parasitism

does the fish in question puff or have flared operculae?

ideally a gill mount and microscopic examination would aid
though maybe praziquantel would prove more effective than flubendazol? it should be available in wales as droncit dog wormer
probably available readily on line too as many internet pharmacies are flouting prescription regulations willy nilly in the uk at present


hth

[/list]great!! but what does operculae mean? ill upload a photo of my sick fish, but today his gills are looking less pale and pink, hes munching on food without spitting and back in with the others.

[djceri_g]

Sick fish

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z193/djceri_g/DSCF0463.jpg

Healthy fish

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z193/djceri_g/DSCF0331.jpg

Can you see the difference
I think its a lot to do maybey with me medicating a lot recently!!

[djceri_g]

anyone? ive been doing 40% water changes every night and the fish still looks bad. It is earing when it gets the chance from the others!! but still flickers a lot!

[ILLUSN]

it lost alot of weight, if youve already wormed and treated for hex then theres nothiunng else you can do. it would proably benifit from a pp bath and a month or so in a bare bottom hospital tank, with frequant feedings and daily water changes.

you did do the complete metro treatment right?

[djceri_g]

its not metro i was treating, can get hold of that around here. Its interpet No9 for internal bacteria.it does contain antibiotics. but like i say, the fish gets worse when adding meds. he is in the community tank which is bare bottom and im carrying out 40% water changes every day. he does eat but still looks pale and thin.havent seen anymore white stringy poo

[fishgeek]

metronidazol is prescription in the uk, try the internet dispensary's they are not too bothered by the rules

alternatively just provide good husbandry and good nutrition as suggested above

[djceri_g]

wow, so these tablets are for humans? how many would i have to buy? from what i see now on the net they sell in bulks of 100 plus tablets

[fishgeek]

25mgs/l so depends how many litres you are treating , or alternatively used in food, i think 100mgs/kg maybe wrong memory fading

[ILLUSN]

in food metronizole is effective at 1g/100g.

[JoeDiscus85]

You guys cant order fish meds from the us? I would imagine shipping would be pretty high but i mean you could put meds in a little bag and send it in an envelope couldnt you? I dont know how the laws are in australia but if my fishes life was on the line i'd probably bend the law a little and acquire some metro one way or another......


Joe

[ILLUSN]

If custom catch you, the first tiem, its a nast letter, then second its a BIG fine.

[fishgeek]

it is nice to see some regulations enforced evenly....
the whole prescription drug reg's in england really annoy me
i am legally allowed to dispense medication
foreign owned/based internet dispensary's are selling prescription medication with no questions at all.... they ake money and are not liable to prosecution as they are off shore, the purchaser , who maybe naive or willfully trying to cheat is possible for prosecution , though being england ... very doubtful anything would come of it


it irks me that we have rules, i follow them , and others dont... makes an uneducated individual feel that i am just making these regulations up... and probably just making them up to take more money off that individual

most advertised dispensaries over here actually provide a downloadable prescription form... i guess the client signs and sends it back... who knows what a legally allowed precribers signature looks like!!!

it really is a farce, and i have to work within that farce daily
sorry rant over

uk individuals could easily purchase things to try...
or alternatively can be honest with there local animal prescriber and see if they are willing to help
seems the aussies just have to play by the rules... unless they are selling to the uk, and some are!

andrew

[djceri_g]

I thinks its best to go to my local vet! But at the moment my fish seems to beon the mend. He only eats beefheart but i ifeed him this twice a day ans do daily waterchanges, so i think this will sort him out. he doesnt hide anymore and when others are pecking eachother, he fights back! I think i have hope!! and also i havent seen any more white poo

[ILLUSN]

very good to hear djceri_g

[fishgeek]

excellent news

[djceri_g]

yep, this evening it seems his colour is starting to come back! some of the others are pecking at him though but he doesnt go and hide, he fights back!!

[ILLUSN]

you need to get him into his own tank to fatten him up. if he's getting stressed by the other he'll never recover.

[djceri_g]

Im back again!! Having problems with this one! He did start to eat but last few days he has been spitting food out. Still looks very sick, and this morning i noticed a big chunky white poo which did seem like fluffy!! It cant be the water quality as I have been doing 40% wc every evening in the last few weeks to try get this one back on to normal. What steps sould I take next with this one? I am scared that ths sickness will effect the others! Any advice will be much appreciated! thanks

I think i will seperate him? sory Illusin, now I see your last post!!

but the fish isnt shy, doesnt hide

[ILLUSN]

fluffy white stools is hex, follow the treatment in the sticky, you'll need a hospital tank.

[djceri_g]

yeh, i tought it was hex! ashame really,and this little fella was starting to get better! I will put him into the hospital tank tonight! I have ordered some metro from the us so it might take a while for it to arrive! in the mean timei will try get him to eat and give him very clean water

thanks

[djceri_g]

UPDATE- on the 3rd day or treating with Metro. The fish has only eat a bit of beefheart. Hes gone very pale and lost a lot of colour! he looks grey! Is this due to the meds?

[ILLUSN]

can be the metro makes the water tase VERY bad, if you do the treatment propperly theres a very good chance he'll recover, if you dont i dont think he'll last more then a few months.

you need to keep him isolated and feed him as often as possible, 6x a day etc, keep that water super clean (nh3,NO2,NO3 all 0), remove all uneaten food 20 mins after a feeding.

put in the effort now and he'll grow up into a nice fish who should keep you company for another 10+ years.

[djceri_g]

I have been changing 50% of water and then treating. I offer food every morning and twice in the evening. im at work all day. He doesnt seem to be on the mend! Hes just laying on the bottom of the tank and looking really bad! and I have notices he keeps ofe of his fins close to his body!

[djceri_g]

end of metro treatment. Still not eating! still lost a lot of colour! Ive changed 70% water also added a carbon to remove meds to see if helll feel better! If not, i really give up hope!

[djceri_g]

Still not eating! well, he doesnt seem to have the energy to go get food!! Ill try tempt live worms again tonight