Fry do not survive

[m tomasums]

I am on my 14th batch of eggs as of today. Initally they were being eaten by the male as soon as they became wrigglers but the last two batches have lasted for seven days. Then they disappear. I don't think the parents are eating them. I have a 3 ft tank with just the pair in it. the fry do not attach to mum or dad and do swim around. I think the parents do not have any slime on there bodies. I presently feed them blood worms and tetra granules. After some advice bought frozen beef heart today but they were not interested and instead laid eggs.
Has anyone got any suggestions?
Thanks
Miriam :cry:

[ILLUSN]

I've got a pair with similar problems, I'm going to try artificially raising them.

whats your ph, if you can get it down to 5.0 they should start producing some food for the fry.

[Merrilyn]

Welcome to the forum Miriam.

It can take them a little while to get used to beefheart, but you're on the right track increasing the protein in the diet.

Next thing you should do is to treat the pair for gill and body flukes before you get them to spawn next time.

As Samir suggested, gradually drop the pH to around 5. That certainly helps fish produce body slime. Another thing to try is to reduce the size of the tank once the pair have spawned, using a divider and also drop the level of the water. That gives the fry a chance to find their parents instead of swimming aimlessly around the larger tank.

Good luck.

[samir]

I suggest gradually drop the ph to 5.0. :lol: :lol: :lol: Merrilyn you can see the future :shock: :shock: LOL

[Merrilyn]

You know I have trouble telling you two apart. I see you as the discus breeding twins :lol: :lol:

Now don't be cheeky, it's late and I'm tired, and I just knew you would suggest dropping the pH :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[samir]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

One suggestion/request for you Merrilyn. Could you add to your breeding post with some information on cleaning parents before breeding ? Almost everyone seems to have fry that are dying and almost no-one seems to realise that its far less complicated to treat two big fish than 200 little ones.

[m tomasums]

Thanks for the replies. Firstly to divide the tank. I have cut a piece of perspex and put 2ml holes through it. To put it in I might disturb the parents! It is a long procedure because I still have to put sponge along the sides or the fry will get through... as they have before. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Last time I did something to the tank they ate the eggs overnight. To drop the PH to 5 ...over how many days to do suggest? and the gill & body flukes medication....any brand suggested. I understand this can only be done next time. As mentioned i'm on batch 14, who knows if there will be a 15 before they have a break. Thankyou all for your help. Very much appreciated.

[ILLUSN]

to drop the ph use brickies acid from bunnings, bout 1ml a day in 2 1/2ml lots over about 6 hrs. youll have to check each time nad as you get to 6.0 change to 1/2 mL a day in 2 1/4ml lots till you hit 5.0.

you could also use ph down or discus buffer at about 1/2 a tsp every 6-8hrs to bring down the ph slowly.

if your aging water, adjust that ph to 5.0 and keep it there. Just do 10% water changes 2x daily, over 5 days your tank ph will come down to 5.0-5.5

[m tomasums]

I am on day six now ang the fry still alive. Some actually were on mums dorsel fin but now all back on top of heater. How much light do they actuallu need. I think the tank light is too strong. Have placed a lamp along side tank. Is this necessary or will house lights be sufficient. Another question, ehen the fry Attach on to parent is that permanently or do they swim away and come back?

[ILLUSN]

i use a desk lamp (20w cf +100w globe) only for the first 72hrs till all the fry attach, then i use the tank light.

the fry will feed on mum, then swim abit, then find dad and feed, then swim abit, back to mum etc, if they are clumping near your heater, mum and dad may not be producing enough food, so the go looking for the next darkest object, add some extra bbs each feed to them (i like 4x a day morning, befor work, after work and before bed), if they are at day 6, in 4 days you can start them on VERY finely ground beefheart.

[m tomasums]

Thanks for your prompt reply but unfortunately they were all gone overnight. They were not all free swimmers yet and I think the parents put them on the heater. Anyway all gone. I do have a separator in the tank so I am going to move the heater to the other side with the filter. Have taken the opportunity to medicate the water with gill and fluke mediaction.
Hopefully they may lay just one more time before having a rest. The next batch will be number 15. Will keep you posted.
Miriam

[Merrilyn]

You're getting closer Miriam. Honestly, each spawn they have, they're learning a bit more. It takes some longer than others, your fish are taking a bit longer than most, but it's not unheard of.

If you wrap the top of the heater in white filter wool, and lay it in a horizontal position near the bottom of the tank, the parents won't use it to hold their fry, and the fry will no longer be attracted to the black rubber top of the heater.

Good luck. You're almost there :P

[m tomasums]

Thanks for your words of encouragement/hope. I have been frustrated for the last 14 weeks. I am actually going away for a week soon... with my luck it will all happen then. With Illusn's response to the lighting... Tank light after 72 hrs. Do I leave it on all the time or switch off as per usual. I can't thank you all enough for your help. Hopefully very soon I will have some good news. Meanwhile I am doing waterchange tomorrow due to medication and will move the heater.
Will be in touch. Miriam

[ILLUSN]

i run the lights as per usual after 3 days (12hrs on 12 off) the desk lamp stays on 24/7 for the first 3 weeks.

[m tomasums]

Well batch No. 15 came and went. They spawned Staurday night and by Monday morning the eggs were gone. This time the female was not very interested in guarding the eggs. There was only really commitment from the male. On Sunday afternoon there was a bit of commotion in the house due to the storms... maybe they got upset? Who Knows. Now in the other tank I have two discus as well. Thry habve spawned. As best as I can see a lot of the eggs have turned white. Because I didn't see the spawning process I don't know if the male ferilising process took place. Am busy over the next few days ....so I will just see what eventuates. Do you think in the new year I should swap/mix the discus or just put all four in one tank? Any suggestions?

Miriam