Please help urgent!!!

[ctvu]

I got one of 6 discus swimming up side down, side way and panting a lot. There is no sign of sickness i.e no dark colour yesterday still eating but when I got home this fish always hides in the corner. The ammonia level is a bit high 1.2, PH 6.5. Please help me what to do I already raised the temp 32 It is breaking my heart when I see him or her going to die. Thank you

Ps: I don't have QT tank

[Proteus]

lots of water changes...

make sure the water is the same temp, as I stated in another post, double dose with ager, just to be safe...

keep the lights off.

I usually dont advocate using bacteria additives, but if you have some, use it... anything with Nitrosomonas, or Nitrobacter. (the nitrifying bacteria should deal with your ammonia problem, for the moment anyway)

ok, question time... detail all the filtration equipment you are using, how long has each item and tank been running??? have you recently done anything different???

aside from the suggestion above, do several small water changes every day... even if it is just a bucket at a time. Sounds like you are having a massive spike in your parameters... (have you tested for NitrItes, or NitrAtes?)

[parasite]

i agree, lots of water changes with similar temp and ph, maybe even use something like ammagon (zeolite) into ur filtration to absorb the ammonia till ur filtration is in order.

[ctvu]

lots of water changes...

make sure the water is the same temp, as I stated in another post, double dose with ager, just to be safe...

keep the lights off.

I usually dont advocate using bacteria additives, but if you have some, use it... anything with Nitrosomonas, or Nitrobacter. (the nitrifying bacteria should deal with your ammonia problem, for the moment anyway)

ok, question time... detail all the filtration equipment you are using, how long has each item and tank been running??? have you recently done anything different???

aside from the suggestion above, do several small water changes every day... even if it is just a bucket at a time. Sounds like you are having a massive spike in your parameters... (have you tested for NitrItes, or NitrAtes?)

Thank you guys

I don't have bacteria additives. I just put the second canister last week it is Eheim 2228 and it was brand new, the first one has been with the tank all the time since the first day, we went thru the fishless cycling a month before getting fish. Other than that I have not done any thing else to the tank.
And every day I put my hand in the tank to vac the left over and poo. I read some where it is not good either for fish.
I'll test the Nitrite today

[Trebs]

Only raise temps if you are doing it to treat disease. If there is ammonia in the water, raising the temp will reduce the amount of disolved oxygen. The reason your fish were gasping is due to lack of oxygen.
The bacteria that break down ammonia and nitrite use oxygen to do this. The more ammonia the more oxygen is being used up by the bacteria. Add this to raised temps and there isn't much oxygen left for the fish.

Adding an airstone when ammonia is detected will help keep the water oxygenated.

Also, when your ph is below 7 nitrites can be more of a danger than ammonia so be prepared for a nitrite spike to follow the ammonia. The nitrite spike will typically last longer than an ammonia spike.

HTH.

Proteus - Above is what I understand to be true, would you agree?

[Proteus]

Totally agree..

and I totally overlooked the aeration side of thing...

[skoom]

What do people think of AMMOLOCK? It claims it'll nullify the toxicity of ammonia...

[ctvu]

Thanks guys

I should mention that there is a sponge filter which is very dirty, I am about to get it clean, and one airstone in the tank as well. Do you think because the dirty sponge filter causes the problem.?
I am trying to figure out what cause of it then it won't happen again. Thanks

[Trebs]

Things like AMMOLOCK have their place but they are only a stop-gap solution. Sooner or later the bacteria in the filter needs to develop to a point where it can handle the load created by the fish.

These sort of things are good to have in an emergency though.

Sponge filter - very unlikely to be the problem. You should still aim to keep it fairly clear of obstructions in order to keep the flow through the sponge up though.

[ctvu]

Today test : Ammonia still the same 1.2, Nitrite = 0.0 (test done after 1/3 w/c) the sick fish stops darting around but he is not as active as the other 5, he swims alone and slowly.
The other 5 fish are still too scared when I come to the tank. Since my camera is out of action, as soon as I got it back I will take some photo of my tank and things around it.
All I am trying to do is that K I S S and calm, I do w/c daily, I took out the filthy sponge filter, try not to put my hands in the tank as much as possible, what else I should do now?
I was going to buy some plant on drift wood tomorrow, because of this so it may not be a good idea I guess to buy it now.
Thanks a lot guys I need your supports atm.

[weird]

ctvu ... don't buy a plant ... you will be mucking around with it and the driftwood too much ... will give additonal stress.

Keep temp const, above 32 degrees ... keep the tank dark and try to avoid traffic in front of it.

Regular water changes, if discus too stressed from 50%, then drop to 25% daily. Your good bateria will grow. If ammonia problem ... reduce feeding ... but still feed if they are eating, but not as much.

Even dirty sponge filter might have heaps of good bacteria on it , just rinse it in fish tank water ... pop it back in.

Keep the spirit ! Its heartbreaking I know seeing sick fish, but my attitude is, I am not going to give up until they give up ... it our duty to provide the best conditions for them to recover ... we don't give up on them !!

Sometimes they just have a cold.

[ctvu]

Hi Weird

Thans for your advice and support, they seem a bit better now not darting around but still scared and hide in the corner, they still come out for food when I m back off. The ammonia is the same 1.2. Thanks

[ctvu]

Today I got Zero reading of ammonia, Nitrite = 0.1, daily 1/3 water change with double dose of ACN, temp 31-32.
I found 1 Ocean green turn very dark and always in corner and not bother to eat.
Please please advise me what I should do next, or just wait for another couple of days and keep doing what I have been doing. Thanks a lot

Ps: the rest of them are Ok

[weird]

Congrats on the 0 ammonia. I think your discus hopefully will be on their way to recovery. I think the last time I had a discus go dark color was velvet.

Kev or someone else may be able to advise better. After going through such a stressful period, their defenses are weaken and are more susceptible to diseases.

Better to determine what he has before giving wrong treatment.

[ctvu]

Hi weird

Thought I'd let u know that the sick fish has started coming out with the group and eating a lot, that is a good news. Thanks for your support and helps, really appreciated. Keep it up

Cheers

[weird]

Really glad to hear mate !

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[kalebjarrod]

thats great news, keep up the w/c though get the fish to put some weight on with water changes and food

greta news :wink:

[ctvu]

thats great news, keep up the w/c though get the fish to put some weight on with water changes and food

greta news :wink:

Thanks for that. But last night it got shocked again when I did w/c, it was darting so crazy on the surface then it stopped breathing and sank to bottom from the top. I checked this morning it seems OK apprently.
So I think I should get back the routine of w/c to 2 times per week like before. What do you think? or change the water pump since it is too much power. Any suggestion would be much appreciated.

[kalebjarrod]

if you are having problem with the power of your pump thier is a new item that i have seen george from G & S using in his display tank

it fits to the end of your outlet pump, it uses the force of the water coming out to gentley rotate the tip, it also has a little sponge on it which clean the surface "Film" out of your tank

maybe that may help, or try a spray bar? don't go backwards in pump size yet. the more water you pump the more you are filtering right?

are you aging your water? if so don't be to stressed about water changes, maybe just do the cahnges a little slower, trying not to bang the tank, or to many splashes etc etc i had to be gentle when my fish first came into the tank. now they dance under the new water as it comes in :wink:

[ctvu]

Yes that is what I am trying to do, not to bang the tank very gentle whatever I do or move, I even point the hose to the corner, since they are so sensitive of every thing atm. Anyway thanks for suggestion, I am trying to figure out how to get the flow rate from the pump slow down so that the fish might enjoy the w/c like yours. The spinning thing is a good idea I think I saw one of them at the lfs close to my place.

[kalebjarrod]

i made a simple pvc spray bar by grinding some large slots into a piece of pvc, works really well and very cheap

[ctvu]

That is a brilliant idea. I will do it tomorrow. BTW I tested the water the ammonia about 1 mgl, the lfs told me it is probally overfeeding, is that true? 2 feeds of premium and 1 beefheart or bloodworm a day. The bh and bw I never see left over, and the premium I feed with small amount.
and she also said that the beefheart should be fed once or twice a week. Is it correct? Thanks

Ps: It would be great if you could post the pix of DIY of spray bar. Because I don't want to scare them with the long PVC pipe in the tank

[kalebjarrod]

do some more water changes to get the ammo down, the feeds will rasie this level but if they are eating all the food don't stop feeding this will make the fish suffer

just to a couple of extra water changes, nice and gentle

[ctvu]

do some more water changes to get the ammo down, the feeds will rasie this level but if they are eating all the food don't stop feeding this will make the fish suffer

just to a couple of extra water changes, nice and gentle

Thanks for your great help

[kalebjarrod]

i have taken a photo of the spray bar, just waiting on Proteus to help us with the picy problem

[kalebjarrod]

thats about as good a shot as i can get,

the gaps are quite large so not to slow the flow, it just spreads the flow over that whole side of the tank. :wink:

[ctvu]

That looks cool, I wanted to get it done today, but I don't have to time.

May I ask some stupid questions if you don't mind:

What is the diameter of this brilliant spray bar?
Do you leave it in the tank all the time ? Thanks

Cheers

[kalebjarrod]

that there is 20mm PVC

it is glued all the way up to the last two elbows (which are over the tank) these two unglued elbows allow me the flexability to move it to slighlt different angles when i chose to "Play around"

i started off haveing it sittng just out of the water, made a littel bit of noise, a little to much for my wife, now it sits in the water all the time

have fun :wink:

[ctvu]

it is glued all the way up to the last two elbows (which are over the tank) these two unglued elbows allow me the flexability to move it to slighlt different angles when i chose to "Play around"



Thanks for that. It would be more appreciated if you could explain a little bit more.

Cheers

[kalebjarrod]

i use a the primer then glue setup to glue my pipes together, once glued they NEVER come apart

to give myself some flexability i left the last two joins unglued, this meens i can just use my "superman like strength" to push them together

they seem to stay in place, but when i get bored and what to change the direction of flow i can use my "superman like strength" to move an twist the joins

this alone allows me to leap over buildings in a single bound! LOL

[ctvu]

Thanks a lot, it makes more sense. Now I have another Ocean green sick as well, I have been worried for the first one that just has come out for food for a few days, but not 100% recover (the colour is still dark and a bit scared).

The second one turns dark and dull colour and one of fin has white colour about 1/3 of the length. Obviously he refuses food, so scared in the corner.

And what I did yesterday night was that as per lfs I put a bag of carbon next to intake to get rid of ammo. I took it out today while I did w/c because I am thinking it could be the problem for the second one.

PH = 6.3 , ammo = 0.6.

I thought I had done every thing right at the beginning, so that I would get the healthy fish, but I only get stressed and worried problem after problem. Please tell me what I should do to fix the second one. Thanks a lot in advance.

[kalebjarrod]

so how much are you changing per w/c?

what are u feeding them?

[weird]

Could it be velvet ?

Is your temp still at 32 degrees and have you tried treating with tbl spoon salt per 20 litres before ?

Malachite green/formalin is commonly used to treat velvet and white spot.

I have a bloody white spot out break atm in my main tank ...

Treating with water changes,salt and thermal because I am hitting it early.

If you think it is something like velvet and thermal has not helped then you may wish to consider something like Malachite green/formalin.

Just hope you don't have casualties.

[ctvu]

my tank is about 180 l and 50 l per w.c.

Atm 2x premium breeder and 1 cube of blood worm, before it was a cube of beefheart.

Today test: ammo = almost zero, Nitrite = almost zero, PH = 6.3.

The white on tips of fins disappeared, come out for food but still dark colour and hide in corner and scared. Thanks

[flukes]

Also too help get that ammonia down you might want too double or tripple your de-chlor amount. Might go through a bottle a bit quicker but if its going too save your fish why not.

I dont even measure de-clor anymore i just give a few large squirts which would be way over the amouunt needed.

[ctvu]

Also too help get that ammonia down you might want too double or tripple your de-chlor amount. Might go through a bottle a bit quicker but if its going too save your fish why not.

I dont even measure de-clor anymore i just give a few large squirts which would be way over the amouunt needed.

Thanks Flukes! I am doulling up the amount of ACN every time I do w/c.

[ozarowana]

How are your fish now?

Is your tank barebottom or does it have gravel? If it has gravel you want to make sure you gravel vac very well.... Maybe where the ammonia is coming from?