apisto ID please

[anti-generic]

Hi,
Can someone ID this little guy for me please. Sorry for the bad pic, he just wouldnt stay still.
I think he's a A. borelli. please let me know what you guys think.
he might be some cross hybrid too.

[flaggy]

Hi... By cross-hybrid, do you mean A. sp Steel-Blue? Below are pics (linked from other websites) of a Borelli (first pic) and a Steel-Blue (second pic). Does your fish have spots on the tail fin like the Steel-Blue? According to a very knowledgeable person on Apistogramma forum:

"I think that the easiest method that the average hobbyist has for separating the 2 species is looking at the tail fin. A. borellii will always have a caudal without spot markings/pattern. A. sp. Steel-blue/Blaukopf will always have a tail with a pattern of spots."

Also the borelli will have a dorsal fin very similar to a sail.

http://www.heimrich.de/images/18846_Apistogramma_borelli_700s.jpg

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u3/tolgayuksel/DSC02399Large.jpg

[ILLUSN]

NICE PICS!!!!

[fishgeek]

i think it is steel blue , you can see the dark blotch at end of lateral line, in the caudal peduncle? region

[Bubbles]

i think it is steel blue , you can see the dark blotch at end of lateral line, in the caudal peduncle? regionI agree with fishgeek & flaggy

It looks like an A.sp Steel Blue - same advice as flaggy, look up on net to find images & info on A.sp Steel Blue.

Andrew & ThOmas would be the ones in the know.

[Th0mas]

Have been to the LFS where the fish came from, and informed both AG and LFS that it's not borelli but "Steel Blue". Perhaps AG just want a second opinion.

Just didn't want to response on thread yet to avoid any bias opinion.

Also - the "Steel Blue" does have a more slender body shape (similar to cacs) than the borelli (which is closer to hongsloi/macmasteri shape).

[Robdog]

My first impression when I saw the pic was Steelblue. My second thought was take it back to the place you got it because if it is indeed a Steelblue, it's a rubbish fish. My third thought was that I'm posting directly after Th0mas so it looks like I'm copying what he said.
Then I stopped thinking so much

[fishgeek]

i disagree with them being rubbish fish rob
i managed to find a female and breed a few a year or so back
they have nice colouration and are relatively attractive fish

they can be a bit aggresive amongst males . then i guess we all would given the lack of girls to go round in there circle

andrew

[gingerbeer01]

Are A. sp. "Steel Blue" still considered a hybrid or now considered to be a species?
I note in CA2 it was thought hmm they might actually be a species.

[anti-generic]

kool! thanks guys

[Robdog]

"Rubbish fish" may be a bit harsh. If you like the fish that's great. I just think that there is so much crap about this particular fish that it isn't worth even worrying about when there are much better fish out there without the speculation of it being a hybrid.


Mike Wise of Denver, Colorado wrote the following when the identity of this fish was brought up in the Dwarf Cichlid Mailing List. "I don't think this is A. sp. Wangenflecken. The caudal spot is too long and narrow for Wangenflecken. The bands in the tail are too prominent and I think I see a darker Bar 7 showing below the lateral band (typical of the caetei-complex).
As Ken says it looks like the fish pictured on p. 54 as A. caetei Blaukopf/Blue-head in Mayland & Bork's book. In Römer's Atlas it is listed as A. sp. Steel Blue and in Matuzaka, et. al. as A. sp. New Blue. Matuzaka considers it a domestic cross between a resticulosa- & caetei-complex species. Römer states that Steel Blue was bred in Germany from Asian males and wild females. My question is where and how did the German breeder find wild females when the species is only known from domestic bred fish. I believe that they used whatever would work and didn't really care if it was a hybrid. Obviously it is fertile and doesn't show any hybrid deformities seen in some apisto crosses. This is OK if you realize that they are breeding a domestic hybrid to produce a colorful fish - like Red Swordtails (Xiphophorus helleri x X. maculatus x X. variatus x ???). It's not a fish I personally want to keep. There are just too many colorful true species out there to work with.

By the way, the fish listed as Blue-head & pictured in the Aqualog Book (SAII) on p. 28 (bottom 2 photos) is not the same fish. They are a pair of cacatuoides-like A. luelingi.



Now if Uwe Romer and Mike Wise can't agree on the validity of the species, I can't see the point in us Lemmings getting involved with it's husbandry. :?

[Bubbles]

Shame on you Robdog :evil: :evil: :evil:

You should know the good old saying "each to their own"

You get the good & the bad with every species when it comes to colour variants, breeding & personality of the fish, no different than us humans :D :D :D

[Robdog]

You should know the good old saying "each to their own"

I'm well aware of that saying which is why I said

"Rubbish fish" may be a bit harsh. If you like the fish that's great.

If we all had the same opinions this would be a pretty boring old forum. :wink: