What filter is best?

[JamezMan]

I have a 30 gallon planted tank that I want to set up with a new filter. The tank is pretty heavily planted and is stocked fairly high also. I was thinking a fluval 205 or maybe an eheim classic. In your experience what do you think would be best?

Thanks for the advice.

Luke.

[ILLUSN]

eheim classic 2215, or 2217, which will still work if ever you upgrade to 50gal (no such thig as overfiltration)

[Proteus]

Eheim 2215, 2217 if you are going to stock the tank heavily

[JamezMan]

Do you think a 130 litre tank needs that much filtration? It's not completely chockers with fish, it's about moderately stocked.

[taksan]

Do you think a 130 litre tank needs that much filtration? It's not completely chockers with fish, it's about moderately stocked.

Yes I do .... 2215 at minimum.

[JamezMan]

Fair enough. Can you explain to me why it needs the extra filtration?

Thankyou.

[ILLUSN]

a 2217 is only good for a 200L tank, a 300 if you do waterchanges after every feed (to get the gunk out).

more filtration = more biomedia = more filter bacteria = better decomposition of waste, less water changes, happier and helthier fish!

if your goin to watse $150 on a little filter, spend the extra $50-$100 and get a filter that will last you 20+ years and still give you room to upgrade later on.

[JamezMan]

Ok thankyou for the information. Why do the filters say they are suitable for a certain tank size yet they aren't? Also, are the eheim classics still a good filter or are the eccos better?


Thanks.

[taksan]

Ok thankyou for the information. Why do the filters say they are suitable for a certain tank size yet they aren't? Also, are the eheim classics still a good filter or are the eccos better?


Thanks.

Classics are far better then Ecco's.

You can't believe the hype.....

[ILLUSN]

classics have more media capacity, and the power consumption is still low (15w for a 2215 or 20w for a 2217), also as the classics now ship with doubletaps, and media they're better value for money. I'd go classics

[Cuong]

Do the classics come with media aswell? If not how much is needed for a 2213/2215/2217?

[ILLUSN]

classis all ship with media.

[JamezMan]

Ok. So why do they say they are suitable for a certain tank yet they aren't?

Thanks.

[ILLUSN]

why is a car manufactures fuel economy always better then what everyone else gets when they actually drive the thing?

in an ideal balanced tank with a low fish load, with fish that dont mind "ok"ish water a 2217 will be fine for 600L. In the real world of real fish (discus etc) you want the best possible water quality.

If your going to have a tank with a few thousand dollars worth of fish an extra $100 is a small price to pay for pice of mind. eheims are still the best canisters by far, but for real fish divide the max capacity by 3, or half it if your willing to put in the hard work.

eg i have a 6x2x2 650L densly planted discus tank filtered by a eheim 2080 + a pentair aquatics FB900 and a 36w UV. if you believe the manufacturers thats enough filtration for 4200L!!!!

if you ask a discus keeper, they'd say "your ******* kidding".

just my thought mate, feel free to make up your own mind.

[JamezMan]

Thanks for the thoughts, I'll have a think about it. I'm thinking an eheim 2215 most likely. I can't go much bigger because the unit can't be above a certain height because it has to fit in my cabinet.

[ILLUSN]

2217 is only 3cm taller then 2215, either way you'll have a great filter that will be problem free for years to come (i use some 18+ year old eheims I go off dad, these things never die).

[JamezMan]

If I had a bigger cabinet, I would get a bigger filter, but it's going to be difficult to get in as things are. How far above the actual cannister do the tubes go?

Thanks.

[ILLUSN]

depending how creative you are with the positioning of your double taps, you can get the hose no higher then 3cm above the canister head.
in such a setup the taps would be on the return pipe somewhere between the head and the spray bar.

[JamezMan]

It's going to be a real struggle unfortunately. The filter height is 370mm and the hose will be a minimum of 30mm above the filter equally 400mm in total. The inside of my cabinet has a height of 390mm or so. I may have to go another filter.

[ILLUSN]

Oh well bad luck go the 2213, or if the budget will strech the 2224 or the 2226 (2226 has a little more media then the 2215 is 1 cm shorter and the hose can be fed streight out of the top).

keep your filtration limitations in mind when your stocking your tank.

[JamezMan]

So you don't rate the fluvals at all?

[ILLUSN]

I've had (and stll have) a 303 (good but noisy still not as good as a 2215 I prefer the 2213 to it as well), 404, which broke 3 impellers, 2 canister bodies, 1 stop tap and eventually the blue plastic handels of the filter head over 3 years.

to add to that there was soo much bypass debri was coming out of the output back into the tank after it was sucked up by the filter.

I wouldn't touch a fluval again if you paid me!

other hagen products are good but fluval canisters waste of time and money.

[JamezMan]

Fair enough.

I have some good news. Although the filter is too high to fit underneath my cabinet, I have found another suitable spot that isn't very far from the tank aswell. Looks like I will be able to get the 2215.

[ILLUSN]

You wont regret it.

seriously I've got 2 2217's and 2 2213's made in west germany. as the Berlin wall fell in 1989, these 4 filters are over 18 years old and still havn't missed a beat.

[JamezMan]

Cheers illusn.

I've heard from a certain source that you can have overfiltration on a heavily planted tank because the filter can collect alot of your fertilizers. What do you think about this?

[ILLUSN]

Any fertilizer thats gets into your filter will be liquid fertilizer thats in the water column anyway. this will just be circulated around your tank.

what can happen if your lazy is that plant material gets sucked up by your filter and starts to rot and pollute your water (you'll notice your ph starts to drop).

simple fix, once a month clean your filter, all the plant matter will be trapped in the EFHIMECH and in the corse blue pad, give these a good once over and you'll be fine.

[JamezMan]

Ok cheers illusn. Thanks for the advice.

What media comes with the classic 2125 and will I need to buy anything more? I will be taking any carbon out of the filter so I might need something to replace that.

Luke.

[ILLUSN]

2215 ships with everything you need, it also has a carbon pad which i wouldnt use in aplant tank(It'll suck out all your fertilizer from your water).

[JamezMan]

Yes, will I need to buy something to fill that space? What would you recommend?

Jamez.

[ILLUSN]

dont bother its only 9mm thick, if you have some substrate or ceramic noodles spare put in maybe an extra 1/2 handfull, otherwise just set it up.

[JamezMan]

Great. How long are the hoses mate? Because I will be placing the filter about a meter or so away from the tank.

Luke.

[ILLUSN]

from memory i think you get about 2m of hose, sorry these things go forever so i havn't bought a brand new one in about 4 years. 1m away should be fine.

[JamezMan]

Ok cool. Thanks for the info illusn, I'll probably have the filter in about a weeks time. Hope it all goes well.

Luke.

[JamezMan]

One last question. Is the filter very noisey?

Cheers.

Luke.

[ILLUSN]

whisper quite, you wont know if its on or off untill you put your hand on the filter head, then you'll feel the moter spinning

[JamezMan]

Awesome. Thanks Illusn. Looks like I'll order it tonight. I've heard onion bags are good to divide up the different media, what do you think of this?

Thanks.

Luke.

[ILLUSN]

Onion bags work VERY well, they are a large mesh so they dont clog, you'll only need 2 for a 2215, just set it up how it says on the box.

[JamezMan]

Just the two ay. What sort of media is provided mate? Will it affect the pH or anything?

Thanks.

Luke.

[ILLUSN]

Eheim mech and biological media is completly inert and will not effect ph, kh or gh. they ship with efhimech (ceramic noodles) and substrat pro (long term spherical sintered glass substrate with a surface area of 450 square meters/liter).
use one onion bag for your efhi mech in the bottom, then use the included corse sponge, then use the 2nd bag for the substrat, then the included fine sponge goes last.

all this is on the box. the instructions will say dont use a mesh bag as they clog, this is not a problem for the onion bags.

[JamezMan]

Thanks alot Illusn. Cheers for the advice etc. Should have the filter in a week or so.

Luke.

[JamezMan]

Got the filter today Illusn. Do you have any tips on how to set it up? Like how to cut the hoses etc? Im going to use a couple of onion bags to seperate the media and fill it up later on this arvo. Is it absolutely essential for all the filter to be under the water level?

Thanks again.

Lucas.

[ILLUSN]

Just set it up as per the diagram on the box, efhi mech on the bottom, then the blue pad, then the substrate then the white pad, i'd leave the carbon pad out.

cut the hoses with a good pair of scissors (the wife's dress making scissors work well), cut the ends square, i like to set ip up with the taps as close to the filter body as possible (makes re filling after a clean much easier), but it isn't vital. a few times when i've had some hose a bit too short i've used the taps to join them together, midlength and it all works ok.

the filter works better below the tank, or atleast below the water line, the filter is gravity fed for the intake, and the pump works beter if it just has to push water up hill (rather then push water out and pull water in).

[JamezMan]

Well I wish I was told that by somebody while I was considering the purchase. There really isn't any other option now, I have a designated spot so I will have to stick with it, its only ten cm or so above the water line but the rest is under it.

With the hoses and taps, does it matter which tap out of the two provided I use for either end? Also, how far away from the filter should I cut the hose and attach the tap for either end? Another question how do I use the little bits and pieces for the spray bar, like the right angled bend etc?

Thanks Illusn.

Lucas.

[ILLUSN]

The classics will work fine at or slightly above water level, you'll just have to suck on the hose to get the water flowing through when you start up, discus water is better then tap water in any country, so it wont do you any harm if you swallow some.

I set up the taps so as the female end is on the tank side and the male end is on the filter side, this just makes priming easier (easier to suck on the male end of the tap then the female). I leave about an inch or 2 of hose between the filter and the tap, again just makes cleaning easier.

if your filter is above the water line, you wont need the angle bends, i only use them when the hose needs to make a 90 degree turn (around cabinets etc) to use the spray bar. just stick thge plug in 1 end and the other on the outlet hose from the filter.

[grumpyguy]

When I was running a 2217 on my central american tank, I found the eheim prefilter invaluable. It kept a lot of the big bits of waste and food that they would always stir up from getting into the canister and made it much easier to keep a good flow going. Just pull the filter element from the prefilter every couple of days and give it a good wash. Well worth the price to keep from having to do a tear down every other week cause the filter was all backed up.

good luck
scott

[JamezMan]

All set up fellas. I have filled the filter with water using the sucking method and plugged it into the wall. I read in the instructions that for a while it will make a bit of a noise while it is emptying the filter of air. How long does this take, or how long will it tank in my situation? It's been a half an hour now.

Thanks.

Lucas.

[taksan]

if its half a hour its gone way too long and its got air stuck inside.

[JamezMan]

Ok, could it be the propeller, or anything like that, that needs adjusting?

And how can I get the air out, do I have to empty the filter?

Lucas.

[samir]

shake the filter a bit

[samir]

and dont adjust the propeller ór it may just fly away :P :lol: :lol: :lol: LOL

[ILLUSN]

suck the air out of it, the fish water wont hurt you.

[JamezMan]

Ok cheers. Is the filter being a bit above the water line part of this problem?

Thanks.

Lucas.

[JamezMan]

It's up an running now. Can I use the taps to adjust the flow?

Cheers.

Lucas.

[ILLUSN]

you can but on your tankid run it on full.

[JamezMan]

Ok. But my fish and plants are blowing about a bit when I have it on full.

Lucas

[ILLUSN]

Turn the spray bar so as it faces the glass of the tank.

[JamezMan]

Ok rightio. Also, I left the carbon pad in the filter because I was told I may have a little bit of a nitrate issue fueling some algae. However I tested my tank for nitrates once I bought a test kit and it said they were less than 10 ppm. So I was thinking of removing it now, would you agree?

Lucas.

[JamezMan]

We'll I've removed it now. Filter is working well.

[JamezMan]

Illusn how does the tap adjustment effect filter operation? Does it reduce the workload of the filter?

Cheers.

Lucas.

[ILLUSN]

adjusting the input tap reduces the water entering the filter, as a result you get less flow. reducing the output can increase the preassure in the filter, this can reduce impeller and moter life as well as (in extreme circumstances) cause the filter head to seperate from the body

[JamezMan]

Ok. None of this was outlined in the instruction booklet. When I do a water change I am planning on just turning of the filter, than turning it back on when I am finished.

Ta for the info.

Lucas.

[JamezMan]

G'day lads. Filter is running very well. However, my flow has reduced substaincially since I started it up even while the filter media is clean. I opened up the propellor area and cleaned the shaft etc, but no luck. I was wondering if I can get some advice on how to clean things and keep the flow as high as possible? Thanks.

Luke.

[ILLUSN]

did you clean the hose?

[JamezMan]

I haven't yet mate, what's the best way to do that? Just pull it apart and push a rag through the tubes?

Luke.

[ILLUSN]

i like a hose cleaning brush ($10 aquaone brand), but before that and old car antenna (no i didn't steal it car wash knocked it off) and some paper towel worked well.

once the hose starts to build up algae, the flows drops exponentialy.

[JamezMan]

Ok I might look into a cleaner brush. Thanks Illusn. How long is the brush handle?

Luke.

[ILLUSN]

Bout 1m, long mate, mine is a flexable braided steel line, just work it from each end, proably worth doing it once every 2 months or so.

[JamezMan]

Ok cheers I'll try and source one. Thanks for the tip. I'll reply back if I have any problems.

Cheers.

Luke.

[JamezMan]

G'day Illusn I cleaned out all the tubes two weekends ago and I noticed a considerable improvement in output. However, things are still very slow and after cleaning all the media and all the tubes, my thinking is it could be the impellor that is starting to clog. What's the best way to go about cleaning the impellor and those parts of the filter? This is my first cannister so I'm still learning how to maintain it.

Thanks.

Luke.

[ILLUSN]

G'day mate.
LOL when you said you cleaned the filter i just assumed you did the impeller to LOL.

its nice and easy with the classics, just turn the head upside down and turn the locking unit till it clicks free, remove the locking piece and the shaft should come with it, pop thje impeller out, give it a quick wipe with a sponge and clean the chamber with your tube cleaning brush.

other then that replace your white fine filter wool each clean and dont cram too much of it in there.

if your still using it beside the aquarium make sure you get all the air out when you turn it back on.

[JamezMan]

Lol, cheers Illusn. I'll give the impellor and the chamber a good clean this weekend and see how things go and I'll make sure I let all the air out of the cannister. I'll post back and let you know.

Luke.

[JamezMan]

Cleaned the impellor area out Illusn and my filter wool but my filter is still only running about 1/4 speed. Could it be the motor?

Luke.

[ILLUSN]

you must have air in it, is it making any sound? it should be silent, all the tubes are clen? turn it off 15 min then turn it on again, should give any air a chance to escape.

are the taps fully open?

[JamezMan]

It's making no sound at all, very quiet. All the taps are open and the tubes have been cleaned too. I'll try turning it off and see how things go. I cleaned it on the weekend and it was off for about half an hour and that didn't help either.

Luke.

[JamezMan]

Is there a possibility Illusn that the motor has gone?

Luke.

[ILLUSN]

Not likely, mine are still running from 1986!!!!!.

the onlt thing that goes on these filters are the head sealing ring (3-5 years) and the impeller(2-5 years), other then that they just run and run.

theres one other thing you can try, remove the spray bar altogether and see if that restors the flow (you did clean the spray bar when you cleaned the hose right?)

[JamezMan]

I tried taking off the spray bar but that didn't result in any obvious improvements and yes I cleaned the spray bar. Im glad that there's a good chance my filter isn't broken. I'll open up the propellor area and have another look. What would be my next option Illusn?

Luke.

[ILLUSN]

To be honest I'm running out of options, if you were in syd I'd just bring over one of my spare heads and bang that on your filter.

all i can think of is that, as the water gravity feeds into the canister and fills the chamber then the pump pushes the water through the spray bar.

if the impeller and hoses and spraybar are all clean then the restriction is coimg from the intake or the filter itself.

when you put the media in the filter did you put it in a mesh bag or stocking?

if not then remove the spray bar, turn off the filter and suck hard on the tube, the water should flow through easy, if it doesn't you have a blockage in your intake or in the filter itself.

[xzbit]

Have you checked to see if you have any kinks in your hoses? or when it sits over the edge of the tank? I had this problem, so I shortened my hoses and that fixed it.

Did you also clean your double taps?

HIH's

[JamezMan]

Thanks for helping me out I appreciate it.

You do remember that my filter is at the same height as the tank rather than in the more suitable spot underneath don't you?

I put the media in onion bags mate so there is no restriction there and there is no kinks in the tubes as they are no longer than a 110cm from the filter to the tank. I blew on the the intake attachment when the filter was empty and there was nothing in there obstructing flow and I looked through all the double taps and they looked pretty good to me so I don't know

When I prime the filter after a cleaning or whatever I have to suck on the out take tube to get the filter to fill with water anyway and it always comes through the tube fairly easily with nothing seemingly stopping it.

When the filter was running alot better every now and then a burst of air would come from the filter and out the spray bar obviously releasing built up hair in the cannister. However this doesn't happen any more.

If it is the filter motor, can it be replaced or repaired?

I'm considering taking it to a LFS here and get them to look at it.

Luke.

[xzbit]

Taking it back to your LFS will probably be the best bet mate! I think you've covered pretty much all the bases.

GL

[JamezMan]

Yep well I guess thats my last option. I'll give it one last look over then take it in. Do LFS's usually charge much to do an inspection?

Luke.

[ILLUSN]

should be free if you bought it from there

[JamezMan]

Nah I bought is from ASA. It would be a touch hard for me to get it to them since I live in QLD! Shouldn't be too much should it?

Luke.

[ILLUSN]

dont pay too much for it, $20 an hour is more than fair.

[JamezMan]

Ok thanks Illusn. I've been thinking, is there a possibility that the filter wool could be causing this dramatic reduction in flow? Although I rinse it well and regularly in tank water, I haven't replaced it yet since getting the filter 4 months ago. Is it essential to replace it?

Luke.

[ILLUSN]

yeah mate, once its dirty its clogged, replace it and re check your flow :)

[xzbit]

Is back to normal now mate?

[JamezMan]

I've taken out the fine filter wool but there hasn't been much improvement. Not a considerable enough amount to suggest that that's what's causing the reduced flow, so I guess it may be the motor. I'll have to take it to get it looked at I think.

Luke.

[JamezMan]

I took it to my local fish store and we gave all the tubes a good clean through and the flow has picked up a tad, but not enough for me to be happy. I decided to place the filter underneath the tank, as apposed to at the same height and I think this may have helped a bit with the flow. I'll keep an eye on it and see how things go.

I've been away from my tanks the last couple of weeks and I'm getting family to feed them while I'm gone. What do you guys use to turn your lights on apart from those wind up timers? Because it's really important for me to have my lights on because my tank is heavily planted and I'm running co2 on it aswell. I was thinking a digital timer or something similiar.

Cheers.

Luke.

[taksan]

If you don't place the filter under the tank as per the instructions its highly likely that you have damaged the motor and its performing in a reduced capacity. Unfortunately this is unfixable as your warranty does not cover the filter if its incorrectly installed.