Metro - In the Food, Dose the Tank or Both

[TW]

If you are able to get your fish to eat the metro in their food, is dosing the water column unnecessary. Always happy to do both, if it's required for the treatment to work. But this Metro isn't easy to get & I always feel embarrassed asking my vet for it. If I can save what I have, I'm keen to do so.

I had started water dosing & today tank is due for 2nd dose. Not sure if I need to do it or not.

Thanks in advance.

[ILLUSN]

i prefer to dose in the food at 2g metro/100g food.

when i use this dose i dont dose the water column.

if the fish arn't eating you'll have to dose the water column.

[madasa]

I just dose the water to be ensure they are getting some effects. Of course ingestion is better but not if they arent eating or eating enough.

I would isolate the fish in a smaller tank to save on metro. Use water from main tank for hospital tank.

[TW]

Thanks, he's eating so I'll just dose him via his food. How many days do you usually feed them the metro laced food?

[ILLUSN]

I feed twice a day for a week, removing any uneaten food after 30min

[racefiend]

i started my tank on metro yesterday and was wondering if i keep up with my water change schedule even if i have to dose for more than a week

[TW]

racefiend, I got this info from a sticky on this site:-

"Dose rate is 250 mg per 10 lts of tank water every 48 hours, with a 30% water change before each new dose, for 3 treatments"

[racefiend]

thanks for the info tw

[samir]

new imported fish are coming with flagellates resistant to metro at those dosage rates. you will have better success if you combine it with a ph of under 5.5, preferably 4.

[ILLUSN]

Your kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,

there goes the best drug we've had for flagallets.

samir, how do you avoid the ph shock when you lower your ph. my fish go crazy when i drop it from 6.5-5.8 over 3 days, I've never dared go lower.

[samir]

you can treat them without metro, if you drop the ph down to say 4.5 and leave it there for a few weeks most problems will go on their own.

as long as you're water parameters are stable the fish will take care of it themselves.

you will find flagellates in almost all fecal samples of healthy discus, as long as there is no stress the fish will take care of it. here's some info on spironucleus to treat it effectively you must take it out of its comfort zone, ph of <5.5 and then hit it with metro. If you keep the fish under 5.5, spironucleus levels in fecal samples gradually drop and the fish recovers on its own. After a couple of weeks at 4.5 you will find very few per slide.

Optimum temperature
28-31o C

Greatest survivability temperature
22o C

Intolerable temperature
37o C

Optimal pH
6.5-7.5

Optimal growth pH
>7.5

Optimal survivability pH
6.0

Intolerable pH
<5.5 >8.5


Spironucleus vortens grown In vitro
Source: extracted from text (Somboon & Smith 2000)

[nd55]

samir, how do you recommend buffering water down to the 4.5 you're recommending?

Won't biphosphate buffers bottom out at about 6.0?

Epson salts at the same time?

What temperature do you recommend?

Nick.

[ILLUSN]

Hcl and acid buffer will both buffer down to 4.0, HCL will go even lower

[nd55]

> Hcl and acid buffer will both buffer down to 4.0, HCL will go even lower

I'm assuming Seachem's "acid buffer" here.


Also, my understanding of pH buffers is that two chemicals are required to stabilize the pH at a certain point.

Won't adding HCL without its conjugate base simply drop the pH, but NOT provide any stabilizing ability?

Nick.

PS. My chemistry knowledge is sorely lacking.