(PICS) Discus floating help me

[dinney]

Last night one of my fishes were lying flat on the substrate. I thought he was dead but when i came closer he swam(normaly) to the back corner and laid flat again. When i woke up this morning all my fishes were laying almost flat near the surface of the water. They seem to use only 1 fin or switch off and rest the other fin. They can swim normal if i get to close but return to their flat position. Their coloration seems normal except for a few pepering and the cobalt gets really dark sometimes. I have noticed some scratching against decor in past, could it be gill flukes (havent noticed any redness on gills). Please help me figure out wat is wrong.

I addd 1 table spoon/gallon of epsom salt already, thinking that it may be consitpation and bloating but it didnt help, they still hover/float sideways.
Here are the pics

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a381/dinney/DSC01445.jpg
http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a381/dinney/?action=view¤t=DSC01443.jpg

My water conditions are

nitrat 20
nitrite .5
pH 7.7
kh120
ammonia .1
Temp 84

Should i do a water change or add some water conditioner(i bought some and have never used it befor) Any help/advice would be appreciated

[dinney]

I just did a water change so the water quality is a lot better and i used the conditioner instead of aged water. I noticed that the fish do scrap against the decor when they are not floating sideways. The turq's skin are peeling a little, do u think its gill flukes. heres a picture. What should i do now should i just wait or prepare to treat for parasites?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a381/dinney/DSC01457.jpg

[ILLUSN]

looks like a lot of slime comming off that turk, I'd suggest daily 50-75% water changes with a bit of salt (1-2tsp/40L) to get your nitrite to 0 and your nitrate to <5. keep the temp up at 30 degrees. get some live brineshrimp in there to make sure they're eating and try to get your ph down to 6.5. if they dont pick up and eat within the next 48hrs you'll proably need some metro (or prazi if your convinced it's flukes).

[samir]

big water changes. do as Illusn said. I'd leave the temperature where it is and increase aeration. there is no point treating for anything if you have ammonia in the tank. drop ph, change water, bit of salt and increase air. Let us know when you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite in the tank.

[dinney]

Ok guys thx for the info i almost 100 % positive they got the discus plague. They all have all the symptoms of discus plague (clamp fin, using one one fin, sitting at the surface or bottom doing nothing, scraping against decor, black color in turqs).

They are all still eating good tankfully, so that means i can still save them. The route i am going to take is to do daily 50% water changes feed them 3 times a day. Bumjp temp up to about 86-88. Add epsom salt per 10 gal, can someone tell me what are the different effects of epson and table salt?.

Is this a good method for good chance for recovery? Any better/easier ones?

[ILLUSN]

Epson salt is magnesium sulfate. tablesalt is sodium chloride.

you dont need epson salts, just use rock salt/sea salt (pure NaCl sodium chloride).

GET YOUR WATER RIGHT FIRST BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING!

if you fix your water your fish may recover 100% without you having to do anything more. if it is plague, get some metro, mix it with the food (I find 2g/100g most effective), either way get onto the big changes (if need be 75% twice daily) and see how you go and follow samir's advice and increase airation.

[garikfox]

No SALTS NO NO

KEEP it as clean as u can PLZ !!!

[Merrilyn]

Dinney, by the look of those photos it's NOT plague.

It looks to me like a water problem, and if you have any kind of ammonia reading in your tank, then it must be corrected as quickly as possible.

Readings on a mature discus tank should be zero ammonia, zero nitrite (both of those can kill your fish) and a low nitrate reading under 10.

It sounds like your tank is still going through a cycle, or is recycling. Discus don't cope at all well with the cycling process, so you must continue to do daily water changes until you bring things under control.

A little bit of history about your tank would help too. The more we know, the better we will be able to help you.

[dinney]

This tank (65gal) is fairly new, about 3 weeks old. I started it with half aged tap water (48 hrs old) and half water from an established 55g tank. I also took the sponges from the established tank. I added two 3 inch turks the first week.Two 2.5" pigeons the 2nd week. and one 5" red melon 2 days ago. Everything was fine and going great till last night.

I did water changes 2-3 days. (20-30%)
i always used aged 48hr tap water (never any chemicals)
i got emperor 400 filter with 2 bio wheels and it has extra sponges in basket and i wash spong with old tank water once every 8-10 days. I never take out bio wheels.

On my filter i can adjust the spray bar wheels to spin fast or slow, i have it on slow. Which one allows for more beneficial bacterial growth slow or fast? And would it be ok to add 1 table spoon table salt (NaOH)per 10 gal to counter very mild fin root and improve slime coat even though i still got that epsom salt aready in water?

[ILLUSN]

use a good dechlorinater. prime will detoxify nitrite and amonia use a triple dose each water change. NaOH is sodium hydroxide. DONT put that in your tank. it will send your ph up to 9.0+. do big changes for a few days.

have your filter on maximum turnover and get the spray bar above the surface. this will help get O2 into the water.

aging water for 48hrs is fine for chlorine, for chloroamine, heavy metals (copper etc) you'll need a good water ager.

if you get your water right the fish will heal on thier own. if your going to use salt (NaCl) use at 2 teaspoons/40L no more! (1/40L for few days would be best then upping it gradually)

[dinney]

sorry, your are right i meant NaCl not NaOH. I am currently taking a chemistry coarse and getting things mixed up. LOL

[samir]

did you get rid of the ammonia and nitrite by doing a big water change ???