White Hole on Discus Side

[TW]

Hi there

I bought this discus on 28 July. When it wouldn't eat, at first I wasn't too woried, as this is usual for me with new discus & I planned to do the 4 week Big L / Prazzi treatment anyway. Then I saw white jelly poo, but still not too worried due to my ongoing worm treatment. He was in the community tank with my other discus, until last night when I removed him. He has not eaten one bite since I've had him. Shows not the slightest interest in food. To make things worse, I saw last night what looks like part of his flesh has been eaten away. I took a pic & hope you can see what I'm meaning.

In his little quarantine tank I'm treating him with Myxazin and also adding some melafix & pimafix to help with healing his sore.

Myxazin says to dose the tank on days 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. Should I be doing water changes in between the dosages, or does that wreck up the calculated build up of medicines in the water?

Is there anything else I should be doing for him, and how can I encourage him to eat. Even if I can fix the body rot, he is starving himself to death.

I bought him from his breeder & I think he has always lived with UV sterilisation. I don't have a UV (it's on order) and I wonder if this contributed to his decline from the moment I brought him home.

Any tips on how I can help my fish would be greatly appreciated.

[djceri_g]

maybey you can try tempt him/her with live food?

[mistakes r crucial]

Hi TW,

Fish that have been spawned and reared with 100% UV can very often have immune system deficiencies and consequently, when they are removed from that tank/system problems can occur. A mate of mine who ran an LFS experienced big problems until he altered his system to 60-70% UV, once he did that the customer losses stopped.

If your fish is not eating then I agree with the above comment re live food, it very often solves the issue. Try some live brine shrimp or black worms, I'm not a fan of black worms but by the sound of it anything is better than your fish starving to death.

I have found that Bettadine works wonders on ulcerated type wounds on fish. If you want to give that a try then simply net the fish each day and put 2-3 drops of it on the wound, let it soak in for 30-40 seconds and put the fish back in the tank. It's good stuff.

I've never used Pimafix on Discus but I think the general concensus around here is that it's not great. If it's white jelly like faeces then Levamisole (Big Al Pig and Poultry Wormer) won't help your fish, it needs Metro and that's probably the reason it's not eating. Get hold of some from your local vet, if they won't give it to you there are Discus breeders in Adelaide that would probably help you out. Failing that PM me and I'll send you some.
MAC

[TW]

Thanks djceri_g & mistakes r crucial

I do have some metro that I got from a vet once before, but neither she nor I knew the correct dose. I have the tablet form, which I found in the past to be hard to dissolve in water. Any tips for how dissolve?

What is dose per litre for the metro? Can I use the Bettadine at the same time as the metro? I will have to wait until tomorrow night for the Bettadine, as I only have the cream type, not the drop type & chemists are already shut. Or would it be ok to put some of the Bettadine cream on him.

The Myxazin bottle says to allow 48hrs to elapse when changing products, so must I wait 48 hours to start the metro? I haven't added today's dose of Myxazin , so 24hrs has already passed. But I guess I should do a water change tomorrow night before adding the metro?

Live brine shrimp is being ignored. I will see if I can get some live black worm tomorrow after work.

Thank you so much for the advice. I would like to save him if I possibly can, so thanks in advance for any answers to my questions you might have.

[samir]

metro will dissolve in hot water.

[mistakes r crucial]

I just crush mine up, put it in a stocking and leave it under a water flow but disolving it in hot water sounds better. I've always used 8mg per litre but there are varying opinions on metro dosage rates. Yes you can use the Bettadine at the same time but I've never used the cream and I don't think I would. A W/C before you dose the metro would be good.

Best of luck with your fish.
MAC

[TW]

Thanks for the help. I've put the bettadine on him & dosed his tank with metro. I read on one of the stickys that I dose 3 times, with 48hrs inbetween doses. Also 30% water change between doses.

I put a couple of live black worms in his water, I thought he was going to eat one at first, but he just looked & then turned away.

How long should I leave the worm in the tank uneaten, before I remove it?

If the metro is going to work, how many days before I would see any improvement?

Thanks again for your help.

[TW]

Another 24 hrs passed, and the live black worms are still being ignored. :(

[TW]

I thought my little guy had died tonight. He was on his side & the bottom of the water was looking very cloudy. There were heaps of jelly like substance on the bottom of tank, even floating. Though I thought him dead, or at least past help, I did a 50% water change. Refilled the tank with water from another cycled tank, did another 50% water change & refilled again.

Then I went for my run. Checked the tank on return. He is be no means well, but is once again upright. It's probably wasting the meds now, but since he is upright I'll give his tank it's 2nd dose of metro - to give him every chance.

[mistakes r crucial]

Have you used any other meds apart from Metro, any of the tetracyclins?
MAC

[TW]

Hi Mac
Have you used any other meds apart from Metro, any of the tetracyclins? He has been through one dose of Big L, followed by 2 doses of prazzi. At that stage, I pulled him out of the community tank & tried a dose of Myxazin. After advice on this thread I swapped him over to metro (after a 48hr gap from Myxazin)

I read on a sticky here that the Metro takes 3 doses, separated by 48 hrs. He's now on his 2nd dose of Metro. Before I change meds again, should I complete the Metro course & see what happens?

If you think I should change now to tetracyclins, should there be a minimum no of days between swapping meds (I know instructions on some fish meds recommend a gap).

Also, I don't know what tetracyclins are. Are they sold under a particular brand name at LFS, or is it a prescription drug.

He still hasn't eaten since 28 July, so he must have barely any strength in him, poor guy.

Thanks for your continued advice.

[mistakes r crucial]

No I don't think you should change to anything but it does sound like you could have a bacterial bloom if your water is cloudy and in particular the jelly like substance on the bottom of your tank. You have to be real careful with meds and as a general rule you use them as sparingly as possible and I was not advising you use Tetracyclin, I mentioned it because that group of drugs can cause bacterial blooms and blooms are not good, they will often take all the oxygen out of the water and kill your fish.

I know it's difficult when you are trying your best to keep your fish alive and especially when you don't know exactly what's going on but you can't/shouldn't just keep throwing drugs at them, it very often does more harm than good. It's also very difficult to give you sound advice over the internet when we can't see the fish so its always a best guess situation. If the metro doesn't work and he doesn't start eating again then I would just keep up daily water changes, stress the fish as little as possible and just wait. Unfortunately, sometimes there is simply nothing you can do to save a fish, it is just one of the frustrating bits about keeping and breeding them.
MAC

[TW]

Hi Mac

The Prazi & Big L were used as I read here that a lot of people routinely worm new discus. Then, I really started to think he was sick, I posted here & it was suggested I try Metro.

I hope I haven't hurt the little guy with my efforts.


I did another 2 x 50% water changes this afternoon. The Metro is not due to be re-dosed until tomorrow night (that will be the 3rd & final dose).

After doing my 2nd water change tonight, I guess I will have more or less removed most of the metro from the water. DO I still wait until tomorrow night for the final dose of metro?

[mistakes r crucial]

Hi TW

Just go by what you read in the sticky about the Metro. Like the rest of us mate you're just doing your best and that's all you can do. I hope he pulls through for you.
MAC

[TW]

Thanks again for kind words.

How long can I leave live black worms in the tank with him, before I must remove them? So far, he still makes no attempt to eat anything.

[TW]

He has had his last course of metro 48 hours ago. This was his 3rd dose, each dose separated by 48hrs. I have no more metro left.

He is very pale now, which I don't know if this is a return to his normal colour (never saw his normal colouration), so don't know if this new lack of darkness is a good or bad thing.

His sore (see pic from my first post) is definitely healing.

He is still not eating and I really don't know what to do for him anymore. I hate to just watch him starve to death. I have tried live brine shrimp, live black worms, frozen blood worms, spectrum pellets & tetra colourbits.

Any suggestions at all would be great.

What about a salt bath. Anyone think I should try that. If yes, what does that involve?

[TW]

Well, his sore isn't healing after all & I'm at a loss what else to do. He still hasn't eaten since the day I bought him, & that was back on 28 July. I have no idea how he is still swimming around.

I don't know what to do & he breaks my heart :cry:

[TW]

Trying not to get too excited, but for the 1st time he ate someting - bloodworms. Not that he pigged out or anything, but at least he ate & that is a start.

[Merrilyn]

That's good news TW. There's nothing worse than watching a fish starving himself, when you know he'd have a chance if he'd just eat something.

He's got a long way to go, but I do hope he continues to eat.

Fingers crossed.

[TW]

Thanks Merrilyn

This time, I really do think the sore is healed (but I thought that once before, too).

He is eating frozen blood worms & live black worms daily, but ignores pellets & beef heart.

Only thing is, almost as soon as he stops eating, he does big poos. Not the white jelly things, but the colour of the food he has eaten. Seems to be so quick after eating, that I can only hope it isn't passing straight out of him, without leaving any nutrition within him.

Still, it is good that he eats at all. Fingers & toes are crossed.

[TW]

UPDATE

He has been eating frozen bloodworm & live black worm daily since 31.08.07, prior to that he did not eat since 28.07.07 (before I bought him).

Still ignoring pellets, flakes & beef heart - but I will work on that.

Now positive the sore is healed, but I think he may always have a scare.

Hesitant to return him to the community tank just yet (in case of relapse).

How long do you think I should keep him quarantined before I can move him back???

thanks in advance for advice.

[Merrilyn]

Gosh that's such good news TW. You've done a great job with him.

I wouldn't move him back into the community tank till he has recovered some weight and is happily eating all sorts of foods again.

[mistakes r crucial]

Great news TW, you've obviously done a fantastic job to pull him out of the woods.
MAC

[TW]

Thanks Merrilyn & MAC

It was only with the help here that I've been able to have success with him. I'm fully confident of his recovery now, but will still wait a bit longer before transferring him back (in case of relapse). He is now eating TetraColor Bits - which is better than the gang in the community tank, who turn up their nose.

Still won't touch beef heart yet, but I'm sure he'll catch on when he watches the others pigging out on it.

When he's back in the tank, I'll post a pic of him.

Thanks for the help along the way

[TW]

UPDATE:

The patient has returned to the community tank. He stubbornly refuses beef heart, but rushes over when the Tetra ColorBits are offered (something the others all ignore).

Unfortunately, before I quarantined him, he must have left something behind in the community tank & my very favourite discus, a nice clean red melon juvenile (quite a bit younger than him) became sick so quickly, he died within 24 hrs of me realising he was sick. Taught me a lesson, nothing else will go in my discus community without quarantine first.

Anyway, on to the pic's of the recovered patient.
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/165L/000_1547.jpg http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l128/TankWatcher/165L/000_1543.jpg

[ILLUSN]

Nice Turk!
well done