How to reduce Nitrate?? Please Help!

[discusbarlas]

Gentlemen!

Good day, My name is Raheel and I am from UAE. Firstly I am new to this forum and I am so happy being here after reading a lot of valuable information regardindg discus keeping. I have been in this hobby from the last 10 years but have been keeping hard water fish like lake mallawi, oscars, JD, and some other fish as such. So I am a little new to soft water but have a lot of likely towards keeping discus.

So i brought 6 baby discus of 2 inch each and 6 baby angle fish 4-5 days back. I am using SERA Qucik test to check my water paremeters. My water reading are as follows:

Ph = 6.4
kh = 0
GH = 7d
NO2 = 0
NO3 = 50-60
Temp = 28degree

I am having Ehem Classic external filter + overhead sme filter using power head + Gravel filter using power head.

My tank has been setup 4 months ago and every thing is properly cycled.
Now my question to ask you is that how to reduce the nitrate level in the water to 0 and how to reduce the GH to a better levels. I have tried to put TETRA Nitrate Minus in the water to see if it works but it didnt work. I do water changes every week around 25-30%. My tank is 40 gallon. Is there anything else which I should add in my external filter to reduce nitrate. I am using Sponges + Carbon + bioballs + ceramics in the filter.


As I said the 6 baby discus are doing good but some time they turn black and six on the gravel and tilt to one side as well. But some time I see them moving fine in the tank. Is this because of the bad nitrate level or anything to do with the GH?

Please guys give me a tip to control this problem quickly before I may loose them which I dont want to because I love discus a lot.

[discusbarlas]

So many Views and no reply yet? is there a doctor in the house? :)

[taksan]

Easy! Do larger more frequent water changes and increase your KH to at least 3 or 4
A GH of 7 is not critical I'd be more worried about your non existent KH.

[ILLUSN]

TEST YOUR TAP WATER FOR NITRATE!
If your getting high levels of nitrate in your tank your either over feeding, overstocking or its in your source water.
if it is you'll need an ro unit

[samir]

as illusn said test your tap water. if it is the problem then you can filter it with http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/denitrate_faq.html. if not change water more regularly.

[discusbarlas]

Thanks for the reply friends...

Can you tell me how to increase my KH from 0 to 2-4. I have tried Tetra Nitrate Minus there isnt much difference.

other thing, I am trying to feed my dicus... frozen bloodworms, tetra min flakes, pearl prawns and pellets. I have tried all of them but discus dont eat at all but on the other hand the other fish like angle are munching all and are swiming happily in the tank. As i said i have 6 discus, out of that 3 move freely in the tank and only hide when there is someone very near to the tank. But the other 3 keep getting dark most of the time and sit on the gravel a bit tilted and swim very less.

Should I do another water change and how much percentage. I am avoiding WC a bit because as the discus are new I want them to get easy in the tank as WC make them panic.

please advice!?

[discusbarlas]

.... and one more question... that if I use RO unit .. what is the percentage of water should I put in my tank.. i heard these RO units make ure water soft which is good for dicus?

Sorry friend I am asking a lot of questions.. but I am just worried about my discus health... and dont want to loose as I tried discus in my tank 1 year before and they died and DONT want to happen this again.

should I use air stone for bubbles? or power head? as I currently have 2 power heads for generating oxygen...

I have rosy barbs 6, 2 zebras, and one siame sucker mouth 5 inch. There is no bullying or fighting in my tank but just this KH, NO2 problem disturbing me...

[ILLUSN]

To increase yoour KH try adding some crushed coral to your filter, as for an ro unit you'll need to use about 50-75% ro water to keep your nitrates down (if their in your source water).
as for your fish, give them a big change (50% at least), repeat this every day or 2 for a week and try increasing the temp to 30 degrees and see if they pick up a bit, i believe your NO3 could be knocking them about.

to get them to feed, try withholding all food for 24hrs then feed, some discus dont like flake, try a sinking food like tetra colorbits

[discusbarlas]

Thanks ILLUSN for the reply... the bloodworms or flakes which I put they mostly settle down to the grave, i mean in the sense they should eat them from the grave like my angel fish. My discus do eat but not much like 1 or 2 bite.

Regarding RO unit I am going to purchase an RO unit today hopefully. Which RO unit is good for this purpose? should it be 1 step or 3 step filteration? should it have a UV system embedded also to clean all the bacterias? and should I use anti-clorine liquid in the RO water before I put it in the tank as I believe there is no need or it?

I am going to WC 50-60% water today and put RO water in my tank. I guess you are right because NO3 could be the main cause of the concern. As according to my SERA Quick testkit other parameter like PH, KH, NO2 and GH seemed to be normal as per the manual. they say KH of 0 is recommended? what is the main purpose of KH in water?

[discusbarlas]

Ok friend... I have installed RO system from a company called SO-Safe. Its is one of the best company for Purification over here in UAE. The RO unit has a Filter inside which catches all the bad stuff and send good water outside. Will the water get more softer using RO water?

I have done 50% water change with RO water. I have put crush corals in my Overhead Same Filter. The water is passing though the corals and then in the aquarium. Hopefully the coral fix up my KH from 0 to atleast 4 or 5.

Also I hope that by using 50% RO water the nitrate level goes down and my cute little discus babies start relaxing and playing as I want them to be.

[discusbarlas]

I just thought to post some pictures of my discies when they change their color to black..

although they swim fine and there is no swiming issues facing their mouth up or down but they do have some problems I think..

Let me know if i can make them healthy in any way!?

[discusbarlas]

Just thought to give you an update. As last night I did WC 50% with RO the little babaies are looking much better today... I mean i can see that that they are opening their upper fins fully and their slime coat is much less and they are not turning black. Also their eyes have changed back from brown to orinignal red.

So whats the next step ILLUSN to maintain the tank further? Will 25 % WC with RO every week do good and is there anything else?

My new Water Parameters are

PH = 6.5
KH = 1-3 d
GH = between 2-5 d
NO2 = 0
NO3 = near 25 (I should reduce more?)

[taksan]

MY god .....advanced fin rot
You should be treating those fish as a emergency.

[ILLUSN]

those water parameters are much better, id be doing a 50% change again every 2 days till your NO3 was under 10, then do a 50% change every 3 days, if no3 stays low do 40% every 3 days, if still low do 30% every 3 days, then you could proably get away with 30% twice a week.

get onto that fin rot ASAP! no offence intended but your fish dont look well, hopefully the higher water quality will help them ALOT!

[discusbarlas]

Thanks for your best support... guys...

How to cure the Advance fin rot ? will frequest water changes make it well? as yesterday before the water change my discus were all dark and sitting on the grave, tilting on one sides.

BUT after I did 50% WC with RO last night, when I woke up this morning ... they were swiming normal in the tank with much better colors apart from 1 discus (blue in the picture) which was swimming but its fins are getting more rotton!?

Will MelaFix or General Tonic will help on this issue and about the slime coat? and should I put this medicine directly in my tank as I dont have a med tank at the moment? my tank is around 40 gal so what is quantity i should use?

Please Advice !?

[ILLUSN]

theres a few products on the market for fin rot, metro works but i'm not sure how available it will be to you. if your fish are eating mix 1gram of active metro to 100g of food and feed 3x daily (only as much as your fish eat in 5min)

Dad and I have had good results with myaxin by water life for finrot, but it was a VERY slow process.

regular changes will improve your water quality and this will help your fish improve.

Melafix doesn't work well for discus, as far as a general tonic goes there isn't much you can use, may favorite is salt, i use 2 teaspoons/40L

[discusbarlas]

Thanks Illusn and every one for stay with me... and giving ure best support...

As you said that malafix and general tonic is not that effective, and metro is not available here in UAE so i think i should try salt process.

Unfortunately I dont have a seperate Medical/Emergency tank, so should I put the salt in my tank directly with the proper dosage? and what measure I should take while doing this process (like water change)? also will salt effect my Siamese Algae Eater and Angle fishes!?

waiting for your reply...

[discusbarlas]

I have a good news...

After comming back from work in the evening.. i did a 80% WC with RO water and then I checked the water parameters with SERA Quick Test.

The new Water Parameters are :

PH = 6.5
KH = 5d
GH = <3d
NO2 = 0
NO3 = 0 or 1
Temp = 30C

Do you think with this parameter my discus can return to life? I dont have much gravel so I took it out very gently and my tank is barebottom. I think I shoudlnt put gravel till my water get much stable.

So should I keep doing WC every 3 day up to 40% to keep the parameters stable!?

[ILLUSN]

keep up the changes, the cleaner the water the better, add salt dirctly to your tank, but do it gradually, 1 teaspoon every few hours till you reach the correct dosage, you'll have to redose the salt every water change (160L tank =8 teaspoons of salt. if you do a 50% change you'll have to put back in another 8 teaspoons to keep the concentration the same)

[discusbarlas]

ILLUSN... Thanks for the reply...

I checked my discus this morning... and their pale color skin is 90% gone.... I mean the blue Discus was almost grey or black 2 days back now I could see its colors comming back to blue. They are swiming with their usual colors but 1 or 2 sometime change their color to black which I think they are stillrecovering!?!

I think the slime coat thingy has gone. cause I can see some white web kind of subsatance in the water floating. But the fish were having finrot so do you think that with this salt course their fins will return back. I havent used any medicine yet just using the soft way to retrieve them back to health :)

So inshort I have 2 questions to you:

1. As they are having finrot on their tails and front fin (3 discus) will their fin grow back or recoever due to continuos WC and salt course.

2. They still not eating, which is making me worry as its beeing like 1.5 week now. any idea how to put them to eat?

[ILLUSN]

trying to get discus to eat can be a pain, try some live brineshrimp, live moaqueto wrigglers or if you have to live blackworm to get them to eat, they may get paracites from the blackworm but you can treat them for that later once they start to put back on some weight.

[discusbarlas]

Bad news today....

This afternoon... when I came back from work... I saw that my blue discus (shown above in the pic) has died. He seemed to be fine in the morning... :(

Also as I had 6 baby angels in the tank.. 2 of them died too... is it becuase I have been using salt for treatment.

I put 1 heap teaspoon of salt per 10 gallons according to my tank size. Does salt effect clown loaches and angel fish?!

[Merrilyn]

I'm very sorry to hear your little blue discus has died.

No, the salt wouldn't have caused any problems. It's very mild at that strength.

It's more likely the babies are dying from the very high nitrate, and lack of eating.

When you're using your RO water, are you adding the correct RO salts and minerals back into the water? They should have explained this to you when you bought your RO unit.

Fish can't live in pure RO water. It has nothing in there to support life, it needs salts and minerals added or it needs to be mixed with tap water.

What is your current water changing routine, and how much RO water are you using each water change?

[discusbarlas]

Well.. I checked the water parameters this morning and the nitrate was near 4 or less.

Before this readin I had a nitrate level of 60-70 until i did a WC every day by 50%-70% and NO3 came down to 10 and now its 2-4 according the the test.

I am doing 50% WC every second day with 2/3% of RO water and rest tap water.

PH is 6.5, Temp is 30C, NO2 is 0, GH is <4d, KH is 6d. I dont have ammonia test kit at the moment.

I replaced all the media in my Ehem classic filter and cleaned them with Tank water. I didnt clean the Ceramic noodles to keep the useful bacteria.

From bottom to top the new media which I put in the filter is:
Ceramic Noodles
Sera Cotton
Bio Chem Zorb Bag
Sera Cotton
Ehem Substrate
Blue sponge on top

Also I put the left over Substrate in a net bag and put it in my Overhead Sump filter which also have sponges+ Coral (less than half KG) for maintaning the KH

Do you think with this new Filter media in my canister filter help reduce down the problem in water and make the life of my fish easy??

Oh! the fish seem better now with normal color a bit dark though. Also till yesterday their front fins were closed. Today they are flapping their front fins and are swimming slowly around the tank. just their fin are a bit rotton but they are moving aroun in the tank some time. I couldnt find live food for them so do you have any other idea to forcely feed them?

[taksan]

BioChem Zorb goes in the top filter as it has to be replaced every 2-3 weeks

[ILLUSN]

Blue sponge goes after ceramic noodles as its a corse mech filter, it stops youe white wool from being soiled too quickly, you can put white wool after your blue sponge if you like to clean the water before it reaches your substrate (Dad does this) i find it a pain caause you have to remove all the upper layers to change the wool every fortnight/month, as taksan said put biochem zorb last as it requires the most frequant cleaning.

[discusbarlas]

Thanks for the suggestions friend... and i know its a pain with the filter setting..

3 of my baby discus have died one after the other. Although the water parameter are quite controlled and normal but they died because of two reasons which I believe is quite true.

1: they were having advance fin rot which seemed to be fine till last night.
2: they havent eaten anything from the last 10 days which is the most appropriate reason?! Although I have tried to feed what ever is avilable in my area.
------------------------------

I brought 3 Adult discus of 5 inch roughly from mouth to tail. When I went to buy them in the LFS I asked the person to feed them fronzon blood worms. He did and as soon they saw the cube they ran to eat like tigers. So straight away bought them.

I brought them home and to my good surprise they eat blood worms and TetraMin flakes as well. They are doing fine but one of them is bulling the other sometimes!? is that normal or may be they both males and fighting? One of them is slightly get dark color with stipes showing but the otherone dont change his color and bully the other one.

I have barebottom tank. I do WC after every feed. may be like 15%. is this fine. cause i vaccume all the left over in the tank...

[discusbarlas]

I wanted to show you my new adult discus which I brought home 2 days ago. They are eating bloodworms (little at the moment) and TetraMin flakes.

After all the hassle, I am some how able to recover back one of the baby discus from finrot. this little guy is also included in the pictures, you will see :)

Please do comment on my new added discus and let me know if they seemed fine or are their any signs of fin rote on them!?!

thanks!

[discusbarlas]

Some more....

Can anyone tell if they are males or females?

[ILLUSN]

I dont think thats fin rot, by the white spot on the tail i think its physical damage from stress, to be honest you really should have made sure all your fish were fully recovered before adding new fish. watch them closely for the next 4 or 5 days and just makesure the fins and tail dont get any worse.

the fish in pic 4 is a pigion, that fin coloring is normal

[discusbarlas]

Thanks ILLUSN for the reply...

The sad part is that out of my 6 babies only 2 lived and have almost recoved. You can see the pic of the small guy. So as they were really aone and timid I thought to bring some adults to give them company. And it helped me a lot becuase those little babies are roaming with the big discus and even started eating a bit after seeing them. I am watching them very closely from the last 4 days since I brought them home. They are eating well on bloodworms and TetraMin Flakes. As soon they see the food they run up the tank to snatch it. I have checked all three and they seemed to be normal... and playing in the tank....

Does giving Bloodworms alomost every day is bad or good?

I feed them twice a day with morning Bloodworms and evening with Flakes.

[discusbarlas]

Friends my fish are doing gr8... they are eating flakes and bloodworms and I mostly feed them flakes and BW 2 times in a week.

They are no more timid and come and swim in front of the tank, even if someone is standing near the tank and jump up the top of the tank when I feed them every day. I feel this is a good sign.

Only one problem which is the discus in pic "1.jpg" keep bullying the discus in pic "3.jpg". Why do they do like that? is there any specific reason and should I be worried about this issue. There is no physical damage but they keep doing punch boxing.. :D ?!

[thecichlidguy]

i have also heard that a product made by seachem called purigen does suprisingly well at keeping nitrates low.

[apistodiscus]

At the risk of sounding old fashioned. What the heck is wrong with frequent water changes? Just look at the Asian breeders. Most of them change the entire water of their breeding and growig on tanks several times a day. I've seen the Stendeker set-up in Germany. The fis density in his tanks in unbelievable but there are water pips dripping freshwater into every tank.
Do all of you have the urgent need to use chemicals to keep nitrates down? You don't need them. If your tap water is high in nitrates invest into a RO unit or an ion exchanger.

@Discusbarlas,

some of your fish look dreadful. Eyes way to big for the body, body shape all wrong. I have no idea who sold them to you or if they started to look like this since you bought them. IMO the kindest thing would be to put tjem out of your misery. The little fish in picture 2 and 6 is seriously misfigured through mal nourishment or he might just be a runt.

I would also get rid of thr angels. They feed too aggresively for the discus to get their share, never mind they potentially carry diseases.