fungus on my discus,please help! :(

[dahipster]

My red dragon juvenile discus seems to have some sort of fungus or something on it, it also has a grey patch all the way up its face.
I have attached a pic of the fungus, it is on the bottom of him toward his tail and goes onto his tail, side on it sticks outa bit like a fine white mould It is also much whiter in colour than the other red dragon I have.
There is also a cobalt X brilliant blue discus which is laying on its side, and the other 5 discus are all crowded around it, it has been doing it since yesterday when I put it in there yesterday but seems to get up and swim around like normal also..please help im totally new to this!!!
The ammonia is also a little up so I had done a 40% water change with no real affect on the ammonia level, but the fish seems to be moving around more like normal..??

[dahipster]

the pics wont upload so im hoping my description is good enough, if not i am happy to email the pics to you.

[scott bowler]

i would get some waterlife Protozin and give that a go .it seems to work for me at times not that i have that prob often,but give it a go and let us now how you go. try to work out the pic thing too i would like to see it if i could thanks scott

[dahipster]

i managed to resize the pics, here they are, I have done another water change this time about 70% and removed as much as the uneaten food as i could, they dont seem to have eaten anything, and tghey are now moving around the tank more instead of being huddled in the corner, i will keep posted how they are tomorrow, and will get the stuff you mentioned to try and treat the fungus stuff..

[dahipster]

i have got some fungus and fin rot stuff, as i could not find the waterlife protozin at the pet store. I had put that into the tank and switched the lights off to try and reduce stress. The fungus seems to be coming off but taking half of my fishes tail with it, its a bit hard to tell as it looks as if he is swimming around with his tail wrapped in cotton, so cannot see it all that well.
Ill keep this updated on how they are going..

[scott bowler]

dahipster
can you please check the water ,
what is the PH?
the temp
and is there any Ammonia . have a look and repost mate please when was the last time you did a water change ? thanks mate scott

[dahipster]

I done a water change last night after the ammonia was 0.5ppm of about 40%, that had no affect so I removed all the uneaten food i could and done another 70% water change, with 27C water that I mixed with the hot/cold water and put in the water ager stuff before putting it into the tank. The ph is 7.4 and ammonia at the moment is about 0.3ppm :/
The temperature is 27C

[scott bowler]

well ok i think you need to drop your ph see if you can get it down to about 6.8 slowly ove r the next few days .and you need to put your temp up to about 30- 32 would be better
this my help a little

[dahipster]

okay, can do :) should i leave the lights off? and how do i drop the ph? do i use the ph down stuff from the fish store?

[scott bowler]

yes us the ph down but do it over time dont do it quick that will give more probs .and you can leave the light of .but just get that temp up and the ph down

[samir]

did you put a new fish in ???

[dahipster]

okay will do, ill get some ph down tomorrow, temp is slowly rising.
As for putting new fish in, I had got the tank only a few days ago and used 60% cycled water from my other tanks and 40% fresh water, and out 2 discus in to start on day 1, day 2 I put in 4 more discus, and 5 rummynose tetras, day 3 i put in a male and female betta. The problem is with one of the fish I put in on day 2, as for the fish lying sideways, that is mainly occuring on the day 1 fish.

[scott bowler]

ok so you dont have ph down
were are you ? what is your location
i would put extra air in the tank too

[dahipster]

no ph down, i had never had to use it. im in adelaide, will an air stone will provide enough extra air?
One fish is now starting to swim up and down the aquarium like a normal fish and the fungus has come off the other fish, it just is missing most of its tail :( so i guess things are slwoly improving! well i hope so anyway..

[dahipster]

also, will my rummynose and bettas be affected by the treatment?

[scott bowler]

i just have some other worries it may be its slime coat come it off and not so much the fungus, and if you put water from a nother tank in the tank ,doesnt realy cycle it .did you put any graval in or use old filter media

[dahipster]

oh, i used gravel which was previously used for breeding mystery snails, and was wet when i got it. The filter was completely dry when i got it. Would it help if I used one of my other tanks filters for a while?

[TW]

i guess things are slowly improving! That's good news dahipster.


As for putting new fish in, I had got the tank only a few days ago and used 60% cycled water from my other tanks and 40% fresh water, and out 2 discus in to start on day 1, day 2 I put in 4 more discus, and 5 rummynose tetras, day 3 i put in a male and female betta. The problem is with one of the fish I put in on day 2, as for the fish lying sideways, that is mainly occurring on the day 1 fish. I'm new to discus (been keeping other fish for a while though) & most people here have heaps more discus experience than me, but IMO that was too many fish, too quickly to add to a new tank - unless of course you cycled the filter on your other tank before moving it to this new tank, or in some other way sped up by beneficial bacteria growth by transferring media, gravel or plants. If not, what I've learned is that you can either do a fishless cycle using pure household ammonia or cycle the tank with just a few hardy fish for a few weeks until your ammonia & nitrite are testing nil. Once you're getting these tests results, you can add new fish. I'm not so sure if discus could be described as good, hardy cycling fish, as I thought they are a little too sensitive for that. Others would know more than me.

Anyhow, I'm glad things are on the improve for you.

EDIT - we must have been posting at the same time. If you have an already cycled filter that you would transfer media across, that would help. It also helped that you did transferred across cycled gravel too - that does make a difference.

[Merrilyn]

Hi, sounds like you've got a brand new tank going through a cycle with 6 discus in there. Definately not an ideal situation.

If you can move one of your cycled filters from another tank, that will help with the ammonia reading.

I would certainly be using a product like Prime from Seachem to help neutralize the ammonia and nitrite that will build up while your tank is cycling.

In the meantime, try to cut down on the feeding. Any left over food is adding to the ammonia problem, and do a small water change every day to keep the ammonia levels reasonable.

Good luck.

How big is your tank.

[dahipster]

no problem, i will do that, everyone at the shops i spoke to seemed to say it was okay to use water from the other tanks but didnt mention the filter..?? im kind of new to this so took what they said in and done just that.
I plan on trying to feed them tomorrow as they have not eaten anything since I got them, so im hoping if their hungry (and happy) they will hopefully take the food. The tank i believe is around 200L

[dahipster]

the 2 cobalt x blue turquoise which were the fish put in on day one seem to be swimming around like normal, after one of them was trying to keep it self upright :) it is now the other fish I am worrying about, the one with the fungus seems fine, but one of the red dragons and one of the brilliant blues seems to be trying to hold themselves up.
This may indicate the temp was wrong?? its only the last couple hours that they have been "out n about" since I have risen the temperature by 5 degrees celcius.
I will keep posted how the rest of the fish are doing in the morning and after i lower the ph, and put another one of my tanks filters in.

[TW]

From what I've learned, the benefical bacteria mainly live in the filter media & the tank decor (eg gravel, plants, rocks, driftwood etc) and not really so much in the water itself. A tank started from scratch, such as yours, will take anywhere from between 3 to 4 weeks before it's cycled & ready to be slowly stocked with your sensitive fish.

Some LFS's give really great advice and some not so great. The people here will help you heaps. I learned about the "cylcle" process on the forums. When your test kits read zero for both ammonia & nitrite, you will know your tank is cycled.

Good luck with cycling & your discus.

[dahipster]

my LFS seem to be somewhat helpful but not entirely they do not seem all that knowledgable on the discus.
Merrilyn- I have water ager CN which says its chlorine chloramine, ammonia, heavy metals neutraliser and slime coat, is this stuff the same as the prime by seachem? I have used this stuff in the water that I put into the tank as i am doing water changes, should I put some into the tank also?

[dahipster]

i have lowered the ph and it loweredmore than .1! so im not sure what the affect will be :( the fish with the fungus has died now also :( the other fish seem fine but are hiding behind the filter constantly, i fed them earlier and the only time they came out to eat it when they couldnt see me, i think they are really scared, one of the bigger fish seems to have a thin film of fungus on its body, which is covering about half of it. I will post pics tomorrow and see if it has improved seems the water has all the medication in it, and i done a 25% water change today and replaced the medicatio that was taken out and also used the water ager in the water i put back in at the same 32C temp.

[Bill T]

If you haven't already got one, you might consider investing in a UV sterliser. I had a number of bacterial &/or fungal outbreaks that wrought havoc - these problems dissapeared once I added a UV.

However, even now I find if I negligently stress the fish, say by skipping a water change & then having to do a bigger than usual to catch up, and the fish get a bit injured, they can get a bit of fluff develop.

The difference is now they get better all by themselves, so long as I am disciplined about the water changes.

I'm sure I have killed fish in the past by changing parameters too quickly, especially pH. I try to keep the pH at about 7.0, which should help to moderate the effects of an ammonium spike, should we be so unlucky!