Rams keep checking out!!! Why???

[Angelfishie]

I can't keep my rams alive...both german blue and gold. They go to the top of the tank and die within a day or two. The LFS has checked my water parameters each time and everything has been fine. The fish don't look damaged or sick....no noticable signs of anything. I have been trying to lower my pH which is pretty high out of the tap so I've been adding a pH decreaser at water changes. It's about 7.2 now, but it fluctuates. Even if I get it below 7.0, it never holds for very long. I have a planted tank and do the yeast/sugar co2. My spray bar is pointed upwards and has a slight ripple effect.

My water is a bit hard kH - 7 and gH - 10, but I put in a water softener pillow to correct that. Temperature is 80 degrees.

I also have 2 corydoras, 1 clown pleco and 1 devil sucker and they are doing just wonderfully. I eventually want to get an angelfish or two, but I really wanted to have a few german blue rams and a couple of gold rams established first. I don't know why they are dying when they don't show any signs of trouble except they go to the top of tank, hang for a day or so and then they are gone. I'm doing regular water changes and running the airstone 24/7 at this point.

I don't know what I could be doing wrong or what I'm not doing that I should be doing. Please help me or I'm afraid I will give up on rams! :cry:

[Rod]

A well planted tank with co2 should suck the nutrients out of the water and lower the ph???

What substrate are you using? It may be buffering the water to make it hard and alkaline....??

Here in Aust rams used to be notorious for dropping dead soon after purchase.....but that no longer seems to be the case with german strains.
See if you can source some that are locally bred?

Fish are most likely over stressed.....that could be too big a change in water chemistry too quickly...or a parasite that attacks them because they are stressed but doesn't affect the resident fish because they have immunity.

This is my solution to water chemistry

Hardwater fish.....add chemicals to water added to the tank at weekly water changes and ensure substrate offers buffering

Softwater fish(Rams)......use 50/50 rainwater(or RO water) tapwater mix at weekly water changes....this provides what most softwater fish need...low TDS (total dissolved solids)

In summary.
Check chemistry of substrate
Don't try to lower ph with chemicals...it just increases TDS
Take out softening pillow
Take out air stone....they just make the co2 less effective
Collect rainwater or get an RO unit
Age tapwater for 3/4 days rather than adding water ager chemicals
Source locally bred Rams or from a different shop
Acclimatise new fish very slowly to minimise stress.

Best of Luck....Healthy Rams are beautiful fish!

[Angelfishie]

Thank you so much, Rod! I want so badly to have a little family of Rams and have been so disappointed in my attempts to keep them happy (and alive.)

As follow-up to your suggestions, I have eco-complete substrate so that should not be adversely affecting my water. I'll stop using chemicals to lower the pH and I'll take out the softening pillow. I'll run the air stone only at night and turn it off during the day, correct? I'll also get a tap water filter. I do acclimate new fish very slowly and follow acclimation procedures to the letter, so I hope I'm okay with that.

I hope if I do all of the above (at your suggestion) then perhaps I could try Rams again from the same store.....they seem like a very reputable store and I have had great success with all other species of fish that I've purchased from them. If not, then sourcing will be my next option after I try all these other things first.

Thank you again for your help.....much appreciated!

[Rod]

I wouldn't worry about the air stone given the small number of fish....normal filtration should move the water enough to keep it well oxygenated.

Normal Tap filter is unlikely to soften water....unless it is an RO unit
Reverse osmosis units give pure water but are very wasteful....unless you also keep Hardwater fish as the waste water retains all the salts.
You can't use just water from a RO unit....it's too pure. You need some dissolved solid for the fish and plants' health hence the 50/50 tap water :rainwater mix.

The ideal situation is to replicate the natural environment......rainwater filtered through a rain-forest....the closer you get to this the happier the fish are. It my experience that means water with low levels of dissolved solids....if you achieve this you don't need to worry about ph.
A little bit of calcium carbonate hardness is needed for catfish....to make sure their skelton's grow properly....I think this also reduces spinal deformities more prevalent in Apisto's as they age.


:D