White things poking out of my ocean green

[Erk]

So I have a few threads going on the health of my lil silver pigeon blood, well I came home from work today and noticed these white things sticking out of my ocean green.....he is still eating, but getting more shy when I walk up to the tank, and I was getting pretty close in order to get you guys these pics, and I could tell its not the same ocean green as a few days ago :( I did notice this on one side of him yesterday....but it was just a tiny lil thing, but now they are on both sides, and sticking out further then yesterday :(

Please help....again the meds I have are PraziPRO, Metronidazole Tablets, Sykes Big L Pig and Poultry, flubenol 15%, and Primafix and Melafix

Thanks very much

[Erk]

More, but im sure you know what it is by now

Thanks

[Erk]

Updated tank stats are:

Temp=30.3C
ammonia=0
nitrite=0
nitrate=10-20
phosphate=1
pH=7.0 (with airstone and co2 on)

no kH or gH kit here ATM...momma has it, but I doubt there is an issue ther. RO water with Kent RO Right, and Kent Discus Essentials and 1/4 teaspoon "jungle" pH increaser. I do plenty water changes with pre-warmed RO water

Thanks

[ILLUSN]

looks like physical damage to me, if you do have flukes the fish will damage itself flicking on suff. good wter quality and maybe a little salt it will heal up. get onto the paracite treatment

[nicholas76]

For an ocean green it has a very strong blue to it??

either way is the injury covered in fungas?? if so id say its a scratch.

its hard treating fish in a planted tank, id moniter it and if it dosent clear up shortly id seperate in a Q tank and treat seperately.

[Erk]

Thanks ILLUSN and nicholas76 :D

It doesnt seem like these white things are covered in fungus nicholas76, just looks like the white things just stick out of him, in the same spot on each side.

I did a good water change last night, and that was it, no meds, or anything, so I will check on him when I get home, and see whats going on. Ive never seen this fish flicking against anything....that was the lil silver pigeon that was doing that.


For an ocean green it has a very strong blue to it??

I absolutely agree there....was sold to me as an ocean green, and looked like the pictures ive seen when I first got him, but he is def. more blue then anything, and has been like this for a while :?:


looks like physical damage to me, if you do have flukes the fish will damage itself flicking on suff. good wter quality and maybe a little salt it will heal up. get onto the paracite treatment

Again, ive never seen this guy flick against anything.....did my water change to try to help things, and Ive read on here, its a good thing to do those when you see issues, as that may be all that is needed at that point, so hopefully that will help. Cant do salt in the main tank? And I cant find plain, cooking, kosher salt anyways :?

I will do the prazi treatment today, unless someone recommends something else throughout my day at work

Thanks again very much :)
Eric

[sammigold]

Hi Eric, sometime it can be a little fatty deposit. does it look a bit like a white pimple?... if the fish seems ok other than that, you may just want to keep up good water change regime and keep his diet nice and varied. And you may find that they disappear within a few days.

I had a fish that had a similar looking white lump to that and it went within about 7 days. My LFS said sometimes discus can get fatty deposits from the fat in the foods they are given to eat, and advised to observe over a few days before medicating unnecessarily and he was right in that instance. It did go away by itself without any help from me.

HTH

[Erk]

Thanks sammi, it does kinda look like a pimple...and a fatty deposit could be it, cause it is pretty much in the same spot on both sides of him. I will keep up the water changes, and vary the diet a bit more, and see how it goes

Any input on why he/she is blue, and not very "ocean green" looking? Should I stop feeding the tetra colorbits? As you can see in the pics his/her eyes are red, and I think I read somewhere on here that oceans should have yellow eyes? Its strange tho, cause the big ribbon pigeon eats the most and his eyes are NOT red :?

Thanks again for your help! I really hope it goes away on its own...glad yours cleared up on its own for you in the past :)

[Erk]

just got home from work.....still there :( The one on the one side looks the same, and the other one, the white piece looks kinda like its gonna falll off....its waving in the current, and now right next to that is a brownish white one...so its bigger then yesterday, still out kinda, but not as active

Should I update with a pic??

Thanks...I was gonna do the praziPRO a while? It seems like the lil pigeon, and possibly the ocean is only breathing out of one gill :(

[nicholas76]

Any input on why he/she is blue, and not very "ocean green" looking? Should I stop feeding the tetra colorbits? As you can see in the pics his/her eyes are red, and I think I read somewhere on here that oceans should have yellow eyes? Its strange tho, cause the big ribbon pigeon eats the most and his eyes are NOT red :?

Thanks again for your help! I really hope it goes away on its own...glad yours cleared up on its own for you in the past :)

HI Erk,

In a nut shell ...Blue diamonds and Ocean greens derive from the exact same strain. The ones with green sheen get called ocean green. I think its safe to say you have a blue diamond.

Nothing wrong with the eye colours, its normal. Either yellow or red is be fancied.

Your "ribbon" is a crappy LFS name,, its simply a pigeon blood strain.

Perhaps a variation in diet is needed in relation to that fatty deposit, if thats what it is?

[mistakes r crucial]

I'm with Sammi on that one Erk. They are fatty deposits and come and go, they don't seem to do them any harm but I've seen them more on red based fish than blue.
Cheers
MAC

[Erk]

Thanks nicholas76....I fed some brine shrimp today, and I think I will put some bloodworms in now :)



In a nut shell ...Blue diamonds and Ocean greens derive from the exact same strain. The ones with green sheen get called ocean green. I think its safe to say you have a blue diamond.

Occasionally he/she has this "green sheen" but more often it looks rather blue like the pictures...I should try to get a pic and not do the "auto-correct" on it.

I kinda figured with the peppering the ribbon is just a pigeon, I know you guys hate these pet names...I will call it the big pigeon from now on! haha

If this is something more then a fatty deposit, is it ok to just sit and watch? I kinda feel bad....is it ok to start the prazi treatment as ILLUSN suggested for the gill fluke? Do i need to turn the lights off, how should I feed during treatment, should I shut the co2 off, and just run the airstone? No liquid ferts for the plants?

Sorry for all the questions...but I never medicated any fish before these guys. I dont feel the first treatment of prazi was very effective, and ILLUSN said I should double the dose, cause then I would have the 5mg/L?

http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12724


Thank you very much for your help

[Erk]

Thanks very much MAC! I will def. hold off on treating them for anything regarding those fatty deposits, and hope thats all they are :)

Any advice on the prazi for gill fluke, or just hold off on everything for a few days?

Thanks again!
Eric

[mistakes r crucial]

Who told you to use Prazi at 2.5mg per litre? If I've read your post correctly and that's what you used no wonder it wasn't effective, 5mg per litre is the correct dose and you can go up to 8mg for severe cases but IME they don't like it much at that level. Under dosing meds is how we get resistant strains of bugs so it's a definite no, no.

Prazi is very gentle and doesn't normally put them off food so feed as normal. I wouldn't be putting anything in a medicated tank apart from air and food and I'm sure your plants can go without a feed for 48 hours or so. You don't necessarily need to change water after Prazi but I always do, after that just keep an eye on them to make sure the flicking stops.
MAC

[Erk]

Thanks very much MAC! :D

The bottle of praziPRO says: (1) teaspoon per 20 gallons of water to be treated. (one (1) fl. oz. per 120 gallons) Measure Pond Solutions™ Liquid PraziPro® at the rate of one (1) teaspoon per 32 gallons of water to be treated. (one (1) fl. oz. per 200 gallons) This produces a concentration of 2.5 mg/L.

I will dose the praziPRO at 5mg/L and watch them

I have shut off co2, and have the air on...will do a water change in 48 hours

Thanks again!
Eric

[sammigold]

JMO but breathing out of one gill does not make it gill flukes unless it is a constant thing. sometime discus will just look like they are breathing out of one gill and then they swap sides, or they breathe out of both. I think it is little likeus breathing through our nose or our mouth or sometimes through both when we yawn. But noone thinks that we have asthma because we do.

I would avoid medicating unless you actually see other symptoms such as constant flicking and scratching against rocks etc, respirative problems etc.

An occaisional flick, or one gill breath does not make flukes. I dont want to sound like I am diminishing the problems if they do have flukes but I just want to make sure that you are not being a little over worried. (I say this because most of us are with our first discus. I know I was. We watch them so closely that we diagnose anything as a problem that wouldnt even go notice in another fish.)

Good luck and I hope that your fish remain well.

[Erk]

Thank you sammi....I def. am worried over them

Its not a constant flicking by any means and I only today started to check to see how their breathing out of their gills was

Besides all that, I certainly have had issues trying to get the o2 into the tank, while fiddling with the new pressurized co2 system, and I could have messed them up with that, I dunno....still learning, but I have been running an airstone all the time so far this week because I cant seem to get the balance right without the airstone the cardinals are at the top like they cant breathe, and Im sure it wouldnt be long before the discus were up there...they act funny when its not on, and the bubble count is within everybody elses range on here

They always seem like they are breathing harder then they used to, even with the airstone on like this....regardless of if they are eating or playing...just when they hang out there I can see them breathing fast and they didnt use to

Sorry for the long post, and I really appreciate your help :D

I really dunno what to do :oops:

[sammigold]

if they werent in a planted tank I would say put in some cooking salt at a rate of 1 teaspoon per 40 litres. this can help relax them. Keep your airstone on, it helps to circulate the oxygen. salt helps them to absorb the oxygen through their gills due to relaxing them and helps to promote slime coat. Your plants may deal with small amounts of salt so it could be worth it if you feel that your plants will deal with it.

if your cardinals are hanging around the top, then it sounds more like oxygen issues than fluke issue. JMO others may think differently.

I have to go out now. But I believe the breathing may be stress related due to your o2 probs. and your stress levels too. Just relax and Try and sort those out before adding meds. etc keep your water as clean as possible and get as much oxygen circulating through as you can for the time being.

good luck.

[Greggy]

Hi Erk!

One of my 3 1/2yo daughter's two goldfish (in her little 14" tank with a HOB) had what I can only describe as a pimple on its side, which started as a small lump, grew much bigger, and ended up looking like a large white lump on its side (a bit like your photos) which I'm quite sure 'burst' and evenetually settled down and healed, all by itself with no medication. This was all on a really small goldfish too - we were sure we'd lose him, but now he's back to normal with just a slight 'scar' on his side where the pimple once was.

Does your problem look anything like a raised pimple about to burst?

I agree with not medicating the tank unless the fish really takes a turn for the worse, and even then remove it from the tank to a QT for treatment with anti-biotics.

As for your O2 & CO2 levels, you must remember that each tank is different, and some tanks will use up more CO2 (and produce more O2) than others depending on plant & fish loads etc. I think you should play it safe and reduce the amount of CO2 going into the tank, as water can only hold so much dissoved gasses, and CO2 is taken up MUCH more easily than O2 in the water.

If your fish are breathing relatively fast (more than 90 times per second) I'd say there is an issue to address. I don't run CO2 but I'm fairly heavily planted and I run an air stone at night because without it my Discus would be breathing quite fast in the morning. Now they breathe at approx 40-60 times per minute when relaxed which I am more comfortable with.

Regards,

Greggy

[mistakes r crucial]

If I was worried about my Discus I'd be turning the CO2 off completely, if you are still going through that learning curve (we all are to be frank but anyway) too much CO2 and you will fluctuate the Ph and diminish the Oxygen levels which maybe why your Tetras are at the top of the tank and your Discus are giving you heartburn. Just let the plants do their thing for a while, I doubt it will harm them.

If you're unsure about flukes then treat them, IMO it's better to be safe than sorry and Prazi will not harm them but make sure you don't under dose. If you allow flukes to go untreated they will kill your fish, period, but it's hard to know if they do or they don't without seeing them.

From the pics you've posted the white globules are fat deposits and not ulcers. Goldfish get ulcers on a regular basis, Discus don't.
MAC

[Erk]

Thanks everyone

The CO2 is off, and the airstone is on and I will just keep my eye on them or a bit. I dont think I wanna try to add salt to the planted tank, cause a good bit of the plants I have were ordered off the internet, and I dunno if I feel like going through all that again right now

Thanks again for your help :D
Eric

[Merrilyn]

Eric, I've just had another look at those photos.

Seems strange to me that the 'pimples' are in exactly the same spot on both sides of the fish.

Discus do get a disease called "Head and Lateral Line Erosion". It usually starts at the head. Little pimples appear (some people even think they look like white worms coming out of the head) they burst, or fall out and leave behind a rather nasty looking crater or hole, hence the name.

These holes can also appear along the lateral line of the fish, a quite distinct curved line along the body of the fish, from the gill plate to the tail. I can't quite tell from the photos if it is actually along the lateral line, or just above it.

It usually appears along with other symptoms, but can also appear just by itself.

Treatment is a change in diet, to something with more vitamins and green vegetables. It's thought the fish may be lacking in some vitamin or mineral, and changing the diet usually makes a big dirrerence.

Just keep a look out for white droppings, which will indicate that the problem is progressing and will need to be treated with metro.

[Erk]

Thanks Merrilyn :D

The "pimples" are on the lateral line in the same spot on both sides. They seem like they are going away now tho. I stopped feeding the beefheart mix, and when I get back to feeding that, I will feed it much more sparingly. Right now I have been putting bloodworms, brine shrimp, and mysis shrimp in there, along with some colorbits, and hikari discus pellets.

I have been doing more water changes during all this as well, and not feeding my plants. Co2 is off, and airstone is on....prolly gonna try to get back to the plants this weekend and see how things go. The ocean seems to act pretty normal again....not dark, chasing the other fish, and getting picked on, and still eating whatever I put in the tank :D SO I guess things are getting better

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it :D
Eric

[sammigold]

Glad to hear that your fishy is much better.

keep us posted

[Erk]

Thanks sammi....I still see one spot on one side of him, but the other side looks good, so nice work with the fatty deposit :wink: :D

Im sooo glad it didnt turn out to be anything major! Im gonna get back to trying to fix my algae issues and turn the co2 back on tomorrow I think

Thanks again for your help and to everyone else....this forum is great! :D
Eric

[Erk]

Thanks sammi....I still see one spot on one side of him, but the other side looks good, so nice work with the fatty deposit :wink: :D

Im sooo glad it didnt turn out to be anything major! Im gonna get back to trying to fix my algae issues and turn the co2 back on tomorrow I think

Thanks again for your help and to everyone else....this forum is great! :D
Eric

[Erk]

Sorry bout the double post.....wondeful DSL here :roll:

:lol: