What causes or how to reduce pigeon blood speckling ?

[weird]

I have heard this quite abit that pigeon bloods specke ... things like you can tell it is a red marlboro cause it will speckle ... or dark backgrounds make pigeons speckle .... but when I google this or check forum searches I don't find anything ... please help give me a better understanding.

http://www.kittidiscus.com/html/pigeonblood.htm

[Mattzilla]

lighter backgrounds like a light blue will help to reduce speckeling over time. i have a couple of marlbros that used to have a fair bit of speckeling on them but as they have grown the speckeling is almost all gone.

[kalebjarrod]

bright lights also increase speckles

to be honest i don't mind speckling, gives em a bit of personallity, and i love dark background and higher light tanks

[nicholas76]

bright lights also increase speckles

to be honest i don't mind speckling, gives em a bit of personallity, and i love dark background and higher light tanks


I think you mean bright light decreases speckles.

peppering is somthing generally frowned upon , however if you like the fish then really why not enjoy it for what it is.

i wish i had the url, but there was an artilce online which tested the effects of bright light on fry , Results were amazing in relation to peppering.

[Mattzilla]

i have alos heard that bright lights on fry 24/7 dramatically reduces peppering...

they look much better without peppering imo, but some people love the peppering.

each to their own i guess

[weird]

OK, I am confused, but is the difference between peppering and speckling ?

Won't algae be a problem with that much light ?

[nicholas76]

by peppering i refer to small tiny black dots .

I assumed speckling is the same?????

[flukes]

Its all the same speckling, peppering what ever its called its the black dots only related too pigeon bloods...

I did the bright lights and it did work to an extent but heavily peppered fish will always show some peppering..

[nicholas76]

I did the bright lights and it did work to an extent but heavily peppered fish will always show some peppering..[/quote]


Scott you will be suprised to the extent it will work. When used properly lights can and will make the dirtiest pigeon based fish fry grow clean as you can get.

Ive also seen pics of blue diamonds that were subject to the same light conditions and the fry went a pale white / blue. The effects are varied like you state but it takes more than a desklamp to get the real effects :)

[Chris McMahon]

bright lights also increase speckles

I think you mean bright light decreases speckles..

i have alos heard that bright lights on fry 24/7 dramatically reduces peppering
This thread has confused me a little. I'd read previously that bright lights cause peppering, now I'm told they reduce peppering.

wish i had the url, but there was an artilce online which tested the effects of bright light on fry , Results were amazing in relation to pepperingIf you happen to find the URL, please post it.

When used properly lights can and will make the dirtiest pigeon based fish fry grow clean as you can get. The effects are varied like you state but it takes more than a desklamp to get the real effects :)How much light are we talking? 1w/g 3w/g 10w/g?

I'm trying to breed a golden pigeon pair that both have a fair amount of peppering. I've fairly certain all of their offspring will be peppered. If it's as simple as turning on a light to get rid of the peppering I'm wondering why all breeders don't do it.

[weird]

Of the 8 red malboros babies I have, 5 of the 8 have heavy peppering. 1 almost has not peppering. When received non have peppering.

What I believe but may not be true.

1. Environment is the number factor affecting peppering.

2. Colorbits may reduce peppering. The discus with no peppering is always the first and consumes the most color bits.

Also can I ask, apart from the energy bill and algae problems, will leaving lights on 24/7 have any ill effects on growth ?

[africandiscus]

That is strange, of the 6 that I have, 4 have peppering and 2 don't. The 2 that dont are the dominent ones and are the first to the food and protect the food.

I dont feed them colorbits, only shrimp and blood worms.

I dont think it is a function of the food. I think it is the enviroment and stress.

[nicholas76]

Chris,

the test that i refered to was a result of leaving the lights on for extended periods of time days at a time.

im sure your pair will produce some that are clean. simply work with the clean fish from spawn to spawn.

[Trebs]

Have heard feeding bloodworm increases peppering. No idea if this is true or not, just remember reading it somewhere.

[MissClaire]

I love my pigeons freckles :P
I think it gives him so much character!

[flukes]

Have heard feeding bloodworm increases peppering. No idea if this is true or not, just remember reading it somewhere.

Havent heard that one, can you point me in the direction of the article that was written. Would love too have a read..

[kalebjarrod]

I have always been told and was always aware that lights increase's peppering.

the peppering comes from genes designed for some camoflage (spelling?)

notice how so much of it is on the top of the fish so it makes it harder to be seen from preditors above, decrease the light from above and the fish has less of a need to produce the spots for protection. its a natural protective mechanisim

i could be wrong, but why do fish pepper heavier under MH lights with a stronger intensity than floruos?

[flukes]

Ryan id have too disagree with you. Well its not really disagreeing because iam only going by wha ive been told that lighting will decrese peppering..

Someone set the record straight...

Ill look for an article tommorow..

[DiscusMad]

my malbro red has lost some of its spots

[DiscusMad]

i don't know why though

[weird]

http://www.chanmingdiscus.com/asian_discus02_content.html

"But for the Pigeon Blood variety, long exposure to intense light can in fact reduce the freckles by as much as 70%.
It is quite an attractive proposition to do. This method can also be applied on most of the other varieties in order
to get rid of the undesirable bars, except for the Blue Diamond since they do not have any black pigment on their bodies.
If you use this method for the Blue Diamond, their blue color will become lighter and undesirable."

Not to over quote this website, but how interesting is this ...

"Before we get into the discussion of this topic, let us first try to understand why the discus in their natural habitat will have the bar feature? As one of the beings living in the Amazon River for centuries, the discus developed their body shape like a saucer. This, however, is not the best natural design for escape when danger appears. The discus does not develop a good fighting form either. Therefore to prevent themselves from being devoured by other fierce animals, they developed a good camouflage technique. Every time, when danger surface, their nine vertical bars will become more obvious thus enabling them to hide amongst the driftwood or bushes. After many generations, this physical
attribute of the discus became a genetical trait that could be passed on to future offsprings. Therefore with the exception of a few mutated variety, there is no discus that does not display the nine vertical black bars."

[weird]

OK, got a new light for the tank, and plan to leave it on 24/7 for an entire month ... guess that is 24/30 and see what the results are

Anyway this is a before pic ... you can see the one at the top has almost 0 speckling, 1 has slight speckling ... rest have quite abit of speckling ...

[kalebjarrod]

werid do some weekly photos to show us updates

very interesting


Therefore with the exception of a few mutated variety, there is no discus that does not display the nine vertical black bars."

pigeons are one such mutaed variety, the vertical lines are a way of the fish comunicating with us. it is a shame we lost this from the fish

[vincentcheong]

A diet enhanced with Vitamin B-complex will helps to lessen the blacky specks. Tried that on my Golden pigeons before.

[mcloughlin2]

Weird, i was reading through all the old threads and i came across this one...

As there are no after pictures i was wondering if this experiament actually worked..? if possible can u post some pics of the fish now...(even if they are full grown...) :D

Thanks,

Sam...

[Chenzhi]

Hi,
raise the temperature of your tank , darken the light and decrease the water volume that you change everyday. The reason causes speckles usually is the water is too raw(by our chinese words). If you had a tank with the water prepared to fill and filted over one days the speckle would disppear gradually. In addition at the beginning of some ills the speckle will appear or increase.
Cheer Chenzhi

[G-1000]

I think the most important thing to remember here is that peppering seems to be a largely genetic issue, since it is possible to selectively breed almost entirely clean pigeon bloods. However, bearing in mind the genetic nature of the peppering, there must also be environmental factor which aggrovate it.

Consumption of colour bits MAY reduce peppering due to the excessive levels of beta-carotene in the food. This as we know turns the discus a yellow orange colour (if originally yellow or white swan colour etc...), so this in turn may somehow protect the scales of the discus and make them less susceptible to speckles.

As for the lighting - well I got no idea either way. lol

G

[Chenzhi]

Hi,
Consumption colour bits surely can reduce the speckles but it has nothing with pigeons without speckles.In my tank nearly every pigeon has little speckles.The next picture is about 7cm pigeons fed with handburg and shrimp. In pigeon family only for the snakeskin pigeon it is difficult to make their speckles diappear, For others it is not difficult to make the pigeons very clear.
my breeding room in day only depends on the natural light. If the tanks with pigeon, red melon or marlboro were on places of strong lights the discus would become very dirt rapidly.
chenzhi

[nicholas76]

This is really interesting

I was always taught and it did make sense that darkness and poor lights will assist in peppering.

Whilst bright lights and brighter tanks will generally assit in teh reduction of peppering.


we need further clarification on this.

[kevkoi]

So far every melon and pigeon blood breeder I know of has indicated the other way around.

To reduce peppering in the pigeon lines, keep them in the dark in a light coloured tank (no dark objects).

Peppering is just like freckling in humans. If you're prone to freckles, staying out in the sun is not going to reduce the freckles. :wink:

[Chenzhi]

I have visited some pigeon breeders in their tanks there are strong lights.The pigeons had no speckles on actually but the colour of the pigeons had the trend of whitening losing pigeon's bringht orange colour.In fact strong light sometimes may cause bigger forehead. I think the best light for disucs is 10w old fashion lamp which has soft yellow lights.
Chenzhi

[nicholas76]

Chenzi


I actually recall reading an online article with a breeder who used strong light on his pigeons to reduce peppering.

he also conducted the same experiement with blue diamonds and his babies developed a very light shade of blue not the typical blue diamond sheen.

[Chenzhi]

Hi,Nick,
What i have said is my some experience. I hope it can do some things for others and every hobbyist has a group of beatiful discus.
chenzhi

[nicholas76]

thanks chenzi


your input as a breeder is always welcome on this forum im sure all the members would agree.

[Merrilyn]

Hello Chenzhi and welcome to the forum. We are always very pleased to learn what breeders in other parts of the world are doing with their discus.

Please continue to share your experience with us.

[Ben]

Would it be possible that discus that have peppering would get more of the peppering in a planted gravel tank than in a bare bottom tank?