3'X14"X18" Planted tank journal (hi tech :D)

[nornicle]

Hi all,

I'm Richard, I've long been into planted tanks, but haven't had a tank setup for a while. I've also been a real user of the 'ghetto'-tech planted tank ranging from DIY CO2, al foil reflectors and random DIY ferts... I've always had a few tanks:

2ftX18inch wide breeder, back in 1999 when planted aquaria in the west was still a mystery and the thought was that phosphates and nitrogen was BAD NEWS!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/tank2.jpg

4ft standard, back in 2000 when i only had one light and no fertilsation and no substrate
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/planttank.jpg

6X2.5X2.5 fish/ many plants/ much advice supplied by Slippery little suckers

It grew from this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/plants/tank23-3.jpg

to this

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/plants/01-18.jpg

Bigger picture in the link:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/plants/fish1.jpg

Now I stumbled on a sweet deal from an old friend of mine, so it's time to go high tech (with some help)

The setup will be as follows:
Lighting: 96watt 6700k CF.
Fertilisation: Mad scientist method
Substrate: FULL ADA (!) Aquasoil, Powersand and 5 substrate powders.
Co2: Dupla 750gram bottle, Dupla Delta regulator, Dupla Magnetic Solenoid
Heating: Hopefully get away with substrate heating only, with a Duplamat 300 (with temp control, see below), Looking for a bubble counter, with dupla diffuser leading to be reacted in the filter chamber
Filtration: Eheim 2217

Here are some pics

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/3ft.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/dupla.jpg

<COMMENTS REGARDING BANNED COMMERCIAL ENTITY REMOVED>

Anyway picked up 2 bags of aquasoil (hope its enough!), a bag of powersand and some powders.

[nornicle]

Some pics of the ADA products I'll be working with :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/ADA.jpg

I was working on some layouts tonight and came up with the following

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/tank1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/tank2-1.jpg

thinking of going with this one

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/tankfinal.jpg

im not happy that the wood is so light, but in a few months it will become very dark. :D

[nornicle]

And now I started adding soils!

Add ADA powders
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/powders.jpg

Add Powersand
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/powersand.jpg

Add Duplarit G then cover with Aquasoil
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/aquasoil.jpg

Wah lah
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/tankfinal1.jpg

Setup some equipment, alah test run of lily pipes, clear tubing, co2 mock setup. Still need to find a good diffuser or reactor...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/tankinside.jpg

To be honest I have had substrates of all different types, from plain gravel, silicate sand and so on, but my favouite has to be aquasoil, it looks the most natural.

[AussieStar]

Good Work. Cant wait to see this new tank running

[nornicle]

I think i learned a valuable lesson since keeping tanks for a long time and rushing many things, is that the longer you wait to get everything you need, to nicer the finished product tends to be, or at least the maintainence becomes less with upfront planning.

This tank has taken nearly a month to gather all the parts and I'm not even there yet (lights to come)

Anyway I would like to riff a little about ADA soils

ADA Soils

Powders (Bacter 100, clear super, penac W, tourmaline and bacter ball)

To be honest I was a little skeptical at first like many people would be that the powders would help.

However, I think that they will help seed the substrate with what it needs to mature faster. There is definitely a thought process going on behind this, Tom Barr and many others have riffed on the fact that mature substrates are much better than new substrates, and if I can get bacterial colonies started earlier, then I am all for it.

In anycase, I will give it a go for this tank, and hopefully my substrate can mature faster.

Powersand

I read that you don't need this, but after spreading it out on the ground, I think everyone should get this as a bottom layer substrate, I think it is a concentrated fertiliser, mixed with pumice and peat. I feel alot more comfortable knowing I have a long term fertiliser down there, and you don't need that much I only used a 2l bag. Note I also added some Duplarit G I had lying around to add some iron to the substrate.

To those who use just aquasoil, power to them, but I have always believed in giving plants access to highly fertilised substrate below the main substrate.. whether this has been my own DIY mix, clay balls or Tetra initial sticks I think this is one reason i have always had crypts thrive.

Aquasoil

It's not as crumbly as I expected, it is quite a firm bunch of soil bits, I would definitely not be pressing on it all the time, but i can't imagine it losing its form in years to come

It smells like real earth which is something new, and it looks really natural,

I definitely recommend it, after considering eco complete, flourite, plain gravel and mixing my own, for the look and the results of others, I think aquasoil will be the winner.

I think people have to be careful with aquasoil though (and those that have stuffed up with it i think weren't careful and used it like gravel, which i stress, it is NOT) and follow the following tips:

a) Spray water on the top layer a few hours before planting to prevent the top layer floating.
b) fill water up to top of the aquasoil before planting
c) spread newspaper all over the bottom before filling up the tank to prevent any movement.

[Robdog]

Good luck with the tank mate. Sounds like you've planned it out really well and hopefully the ADA shizzle works like it should. Love that ADA soil smell

[Davo]

nornicle,

Have you considered using a C02 diffusor? They seem to be the flavour of the month at the moment. I just bought one from Ebay. It is a glass diffusor called a RhinoX 5000. It cost AU$26 delivered from Asia.

Have a look at Plantedtank.com as there is alot of info about them. The only thing similar over here is the ADA one for $310, that is right $310.
The RhinoX diffusors have been used in the US for a while and they have good reviews.

I bought one as my Dupla S C02 reactor reduced the flow on my Eheim 2228 filter to a dribble.

HTH Dave.

[nornicle]

Thanks Davo, I actually think you are right, I was thinking of every which way to diffuse, the worst way was to build my own diffuser,

I'm going to pick up a rhinox 2000 I think and stick it under a lily pipe (or under the intake)

Design elements of the hardscape

I want to speak a little about how i ended with the hardscape that I chose.

I have always used triangles and the golden ratio in my designs, and hopefully I can explain how I came up with this one.

I will also post a copy of one of my design articles in the main ADA forums.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/tankfinalharscape.jpg

If you initially look at my tank, the wood does not fit the general 3/5th golden ratio rule, however it does have triangles and it is assymetrical which gives the viewer instant complexity in the aquascape. Depth is initially hard to create in the hardscape, and it is a collaboration of variations in height of substrate, hardscape and clever plant selection and pruning that allows perspective and depth to be created.

Anyway back to the harscape. in point no. 1 I've created a point 3/5th of the way along but in the open part of the tank, I then create it again 2/5th of the way in on the left hand side in the wooded area.

A triangle is then created between all the focal points at varying heights, now in this photo the height is actually a little too stagnant, which is why i have an arrow next to point 1 where i will actually move the branch slightly lower when i fill the tank.

I'll riff more on triangles and golden ratios when i start planting :D

[nornicle]

i said let there be light and there was.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/light.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/co2.jpg

[nornicle]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/AR-510/cabinet1.jpg

this is a cabinet i built for my 2X18 which is destined to become a open top planted tank (when funds permit, as lights + substrate are expensive things!)

however what I'm showing here is are the filter's i'm seeding that will be going on the 3fter.. plants and ferts arriving tomorrow.

here is another shot of the cabinet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/AR-510/cabinet2.jpg

[nornicle]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/junkundertank.jpg

[Bad Inferno]

I like the discus tank in your first post. Looking at the plant types it would seem easy to grow and maintain and has a balanced look about it. Assume you achieve this without spending a fortune on substrate. I'm looking at a planted 450 litre and planning to do something similar as it looks like I'll just be using plain aquarium gravel.

rob

[nornicle]

im very very tired.. it took about 5 hours.

post my comments soon

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/IMG_1363.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/IMG_1365.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/IMG_1367.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/IMG_1369.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/IMG_1370.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/IMG_1371.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/IMG_1374.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/IMG_1376.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/IMG_1377.jpg

[Proteus]

Looking good.

Could you advise what plants you are using?

[nornicle]

plants:
Glossostigma elatinoides
Eleocharis acicularis (hair grass)
Echinodorus tenellus 'narrow' (Narrow leaf chain sword)
Heteranthera zosterifolia (stargrass)
Didiplis diandra
Hemianthus micranthemoides (pearl grass)
Rotala macrantha
Tonina fluviatilis
Cryptocoryne sp. (not sure! haha)

[scott bowler]

comeing along very nicely nornicle well done great plant selection to mate keep them comeing

[nornicle]

thanks for the comments guys

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/tankday1.jpg

tank day 1. no i didnt photochop this pic, its as clear as day, i don't know WHY people are bad mouthing aquasoil.. I didn't even fill and refill, just 1 fill of water... this was taken while adding shrimp more on that later too!!

[Greggy]

Well done! I really like the look of the tank, it appears more mature than my 4 month old tank!!!!!

I'm so going to have to take some photos tonight to keep up with these good tanks I'm seeing on this website. The touble is fitting a 6x2x2 into a single photo is not always easy.

Regards,

Greggy

[nornicle]

Thanks for all the comments guys, look I posted this on another site, and it might give you a good insight into the science behind algae and NH4 (ammonia)

----->

i've dropped the temp from 26 to 24.. I agre with you on the temp.. btw how do you keep your temps down in malaysia? do you keep your tanks indoors/in aircon?

I've added around 30 stems of rotala mexicana since that last pic and some more hygrophila polysperma, I'm actually quite happy with the plant load atm,

roughly speaking I'm going to be keeping my nutrients in the following range (following rexgrigg/ei etc)

nitrates - 10-20ppm, atm its around 10, and I intend on keeping it down
potassium - ~20ppm
phosphate - 1-2 ppm

You mention aquasoil is rich in nutrients, but I actually would disagree with you, giving it 24 hours to 'absorb' my water had only 0.5ppm phosphates and nearly no nitrates.

I initially when I first started keeping plants thought the same as you Kev, that stuffing the plants full at the start of the tank would reduce algal blooms, but I now realise it's to do with equillibrium and reducing the key indicators that lead to algal blooms. I first suspected this was possible when I saw Amano's tanks being created in his new 'style' with the decorative sand, which restricts a huge amount of space for stem plants to grow. Then I noticed lots of other hobbyists doing it.

I suspect the initial algae you are talking about is caused by NH4 being leeched without a sufficient filtration system to turn it to nitrate, I was very surprised to see the ammonia had gone up to 2-3ppm within a night. Algae thrives in an environment of NH4 and Phosphate (see below for explanation),

This worried me alot, and I was actually prepared for the aquasoil to leech some ammonia anyway, so I had fluidized bed filter that I had been running in tandem on another tank ready to switch over to... today I measured and had some nitrite, so i think there is *some* bacterial activity, but not as much as I expected, and may mean I will hook up a 2211 to it tonight.

Anyway I expect little to no algae outbreak due to the following factors:
* using submersed grown plants, whose leaves will a) not die off and b) be actively photosynthesing and surviving in water.
* 50% water changes every 3-5 days
* equillibrium between light, co2 and nutrients (balance of NPK and trace in the water)
* use of established biological filters
* use of otos (when ammonia drops down abit)
* use of algae shrimp - Caridinia longistrosis
* filtration with purigen

In regards to ammonia uptake, and why I think it causes algal blooms and is bad compared to NO3 uptake in higher level plants, I'll let Tom Barr do the talking (i actually just searched it just then, I knew in my head its bad, but didnt know the science, so here it is ) :

' NH4 needs 8 less electrons to be incorporated into
> Glutamine than NO3.
> This means it takes less energy. That does not mean a lot
> to a large plant
> with plenty of storage space and enzymes already in place
> to the same
> degree it does to small single celled algal spore.'

and

'> If you add the bacteria or a cycled filter, or also add a
> lot of
> plants(over stuff the tank), you also get the same result
> as an established
> tank.'


http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plant.../msg00069.html

All the plants came in with some small amounts of various alga on them, so we will see how they fare.

I could be all wrong and I might be staring at a green soup, hair algae mess in a week let's see, this is a learning experience for me dealing with high light and high ferts, in the past I could only theorise as I always 'under lit' and 'under dosed' my tanks to prevent algae (and back in 1999, dosing ammonia was considered the bleeding edge of fertilisation... now we know it's *ahem* not so good!)

[Davo]

Nornicle,

Where did you get the pearl grass from?

Dave.

[nornicle]

Still have amounts of ammonia, doing 60% water changes once every 2 days. some traces of hair algae, going to sick some otos onto itsoon

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/tank120607.jpg

[starreys]

your set up is looking great Richard, besides the ottos what other fish are planned for the tank

cheers

Sarah

[nornicle]

Hi Sarah long time no talk :D

i haven planned fish yet, however i have some Apistogramma iniridae and Corydoras hastatus ready to go in,

I'm thinking emerald eye rasbora/ harlequin rasboras/schooling tetras... we'll see :D

Cheers

Richard

[nornicle]

Day 11

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/tank160607.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/tank2160607.jpg

Aquasoil/Powersand Review

First things first.

I am loving the aquasoil it is hands down the best substrate i have ever used... And I have used THE LOT (kitty litter, topsoil, potting mix (!!), vermiculite, tetra initial sticks, tetra hilena, gravel, sand, anything you can imagine!)

* it looks like real soil and has a great great colour :twisted:
* it is light and allows proper root growth which is a real breath of fresh air
* it is EASY to plant in, stick in tweezers, let soil fall into place, pull tweezers out carefully, no more crushing roots and #$@#ing around with gravel. no more floaters (if you are careful!)
* did i mention it looks awesome?
* I feel that over the long term, the powersand may provide a plenum filtration action and long term fertilisation.

I still wonder why other people had such huge issues with it... which made me initially wary of this product.. i now have nothing but praises for it!

here is a testament to it's ability - i give you 11 day old glosso bed

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/11dayglosso.jpg

[Robdog]

Looking good Rich.
Just some constructive criticism though. It looks a little heavy on the left side.

[Robdog]

And also are you using the 2 different grades of the amazonia or just the one.

[nornicle]

Looking good Rich.
Just some constructive criticism though. It looks a little heavy on the left side.

thanks its 11 days old, i'm waiting for grow out before any pruning, so you observe correctly, it will continue to look 'heavy' until about 3 weeks in when I do the first prune, then there will be a stronger 'slope' and triangle.

I used just the one grade of amazonia, I think on a smaller tank I would use a powder but from 3' and up I would just use normal, esp if you are using a strong ground coverage. I hear hemianthus calichtroides plants easier in powder though

[scott bowler]

nornicle it looks awesome mate you have done well .

[nornicle]

thanks scott :)

4 days later
(repruned the rotala, stargrass, some stray hygro (which i want to replace soon with rotala sp. green *hint if anyone has some for trade), halved the hemianthus and replanted)

I won't have too much time to update as I am currently trying to build my career

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/tank200607.jpg

i know the co2 diffuser looks ugly there but its in direct path of the outflow, and i cant put the outflow on the other side as it beats down on the stem plants

[nornicle]

Hi guys,

update: I've pruned twice so it doesnt like much has chnged, but diandra has been moved to more light, more fish added, and messed with tubes :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/tank010707.jpg

[Roy]

Ahh looks good :D
Wont be putting up any photos of my new setup till i get some more growth !
Keep it up.

Roy

[mattster]

Nice looking tank! I am hoping to have my 75g looking something like this. What fertlizers are you useing.

[AussieStar]

Top Job

[Bad Inferno]

Fish ??? What fish are you going to introduce, if .

Great scapeing

[nornicle]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/3ft250807.jpg

[nornicle]

I've spent the last few months transitioning my career (to much ridicule from the planted tank community :P)

Tonina grows FAST. but it needs cold nutrient rich water, so I sold it as the summer weather warmed up.

What I've been doing since the last picture:

October
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/tank2910.jpg

replaced the Tonina with HC. Unfortunately, my bristlenose loved to dig it up and it became outcompeted by hairgrass and chain sword. (yes.. its like throwing $80 out the window... lesson learned)

Now
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/planted1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/planted2.jpg

I've let the plants grow out, without really any pruning except for the moss and the stem plants.

I love the tank as it is extremely low maintainence (water changes when I feel like it which can be up to a month and pruning once every 6 weeks or so). I just get to enjoy the tank and feed the fish

Unfortunately the Hastatus cories have died out slowly, I believe due to having to compete for food, even food that made it to the bottom would be gazumped by other fish. I'm considering bigger smarter cories (maybe a colony of 6 or 7 panda cories, as they breed well in cooler, planted tanks)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/planted3.jpg

Fish and my tank in real life


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/IMG_0345.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/IMG_0352.jpg

My friend and my dog Soxie

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/IMG_1045.jpg

Some random fish I keep

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/fishy4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/nornicle/fishy1.jpg

[thabone]

Crap, thats some gorgeous tank.

Congratz

[nornicle]

Crap, thats some gorgeous tank.

Congratz
thanks mate

I'm not sure if this is allowed, but it seems useful considering all the information here..

the tank is up for offer as an entire package (everything you've seen me put into it, plants, fish, inverts, wood, filters, heaters, dupla co2, lights, tank, cabinet etc)

Please call me 0412 588 389 - pickup from Chatswood, I will help you pack the plants and the fish..

Richard