Fresh start planted tank. Advice needed

[pbates]

Hi,

I'm about to move house, and I'm keen to take the opportunity to start the planted tank thing over again.

My 1st shot at it ended been an algae farm, but I think I've learnt from some mistakes I made, both in the tank setup, and in running it.

Current Tank

Standard 4'
2 x 36w T8 tubes (had 4 running at one point)
JBL Aquabasis covered with normal gravel
Pressurized CO2 and PH controller.

Everything worked fine for the 1st 6 months. Plants grew well, and I had minimal problems with algae.

I then had to move house and everything was never the same. Plant growth stunted and never really recovered, so of course the algae ran wild.

Would it be reasonable to assume that the JBL had degraded over the 6 months, and the moving finished off whatever nutrients it had left?
Or is it more likely that the moving upset the plants so much that they took to long to recover?

I battled the algae for over 6 months with different ferts, blackouts, CO2 levels etc, but the plants just never took off again.

In the end I unplugged the CO2, turned off most of the lights and replaced the plants with some nice driftwood.

Issues I need to address
Water Temp: Whats a good compromise between happy Discus and happy plants? I was running about 27, but that made for sad Discus. At 30 the Discus seem happy, but the plants not so much.

CO2 Dosing: Yes it made the plants happy, but using the PH controller alone to dose the CO2 created a couple of fish gasping for air overnight moments of panic. I'm thinking of shutting the CO2 off overnight and running airstones to circulate the water more.

Light Level:
Before everything went south I found the 2 x t8 tubes to be plenty. I was using 2 Phillips tubes. One 10k one 6.7k. Will that do the trick, or should I be looking at something like that 4x55w PC Aqualina

New Tank

Substrate: Eco Complete. Will 3 x 9kg bags do a 48"x14"x20" tank?

Substrate Heating: I recon anything that makes the plants happy should be good for keeping algae down.

Ferts: Whatever works and is cheap. What are the Aquasonic ones like?
Either that or mixing dry ferts.

Lights: 2 x t8 tubes to start with. Maybe move to 4 x 55w PC

CO2: Pressurized injection during the lighted period. I might ditch the CO2 for Flourish Excel if it can do the job on non-demanding plants.

Anyone got any comments on how long eco complete lasts, or other ideas for Discus friendly plant setups.

Thanks

[ikavia]

I run my tank at 30 degrees and my plants seem ok (wysteria, anubia, amazon sword). I think crypts don't like it that high but from my past experiences.

I previously had airstone with my undergravel filter. When I moved to external filter I thought that the outlet would cause enough water circulation. Boy was I wrong! One discus down and remainder gasping for air. Immediately put in airstone and by the time I returned home from work everything was ok. I kept in the airstones when I put CO2 in and I don't have any gasping fish at any time, even though I run CO2 over night (will get around to getting a solenoid valve one day).

[Roy]

If you can add a solenoid to the CO2 and turn it off at night (just hook it up to the lights).
I used substrate heating on my last tank, and will do so again on the next, not 100% that its super beneficial but i had better growth than my previous tank, so maybe it does add something.
Personally havent used eco-complete yet but know several others who have, all good results.
When it comes to substrate, i reckon its better to go overboard and have a deeper bed for the roots than one too shallow. 27kgs sounds pretty good though (i used 21kgs of Flourite in my last tank but topped it up with a sand layer for effect.
Temperature, i ran mine at about 28-29 degrees without any hassles, had crypts, wallichi, ambulia and anubias growing well (fornightly trimming on the stem plants) so would aim for something like that.
Lighting, 72w isnt that much, expecially when dispersed over 4ft, maybe a 3rd tube would give it a little extra punch.
Hope that helps a little.

Roy

[pbates]

Thanks for the replies.

I have a solenoid + pH controller.
With a KH of around 3.5 it was still injecting CO2 overnight trying to keep the PH to 6.8. With the plants not producing O2 I had a few incidents with gasping fish. (one dead discus as well :) )

Even with the spray bar rolling the water over it doesn't seem like enough circulation to keep the fish happy. So I'll be shutting the CO2 off overnight and turning on the air stones. Safety first.

I have a second 2xt8 reflector I can set up for a total of 4 tubes, but it takes up so much room I'm temped to go for the 4x55w PC.

[Nathan]

go the 4x55 aqualiner, i have a 2x96 aqualiner and its awesome, great value and runs really well.

as roy said get a solanoid and switch the co2 off at night, thats what i do, im not sure if there are any ph swings but if there are its not affecting my discus a slight bit. i dont run an airstone agt night but would definitely help your situation, all you need is a couple timers for your powerpoints and youl be set.

i keep my tank at 29-30 discus are great with it and plants are too, make sure all the other factors in gorwing plants are good (ferts, lighting, co2, substrate etc) and youl have no problems with the temp being high. i wouldnt waste my money on excel if u already have pressurised co2 its much more effective, just need to find the right dosage level.

i use seachem liquid ferts, they work awesome i have to prune my plants every week. i also have heating cables, not sure if they do that much but would prbaly buy them again.

the key to planted tanks is lighting, without good lighting doesnt matter how good your ferts, substrate, co2 are,you have good olighting, and good levels of the rest then youl be watchin the plants grow overnight, go the 4x55 for sure

[ILLUSN]

nice post will try to help.
you'll need an airstone 24/7 no way around it, ive got a tank so thickly planted the fish can hardly swim and they still gasp come morning, with the airstone you'll have to bump up your co2 to get the ph you want.

when you moved the plants you proably disturbed the roots, in doing so when you replanted there wasn't enough roots to support the leaves so they should have died back os stopped growing (which you say they did), cause their growth rate slowed you got algae, cant be helped, when you move this time put in LOTs of fast growers (hydrophila, hornwort etc) to soak up the excess nutrient, once your good plats get established remove these cheap fast growers 1 by 1. keep up the light and the co2.

for your temp aim for 28-29C choose warm water plants Anubias, tiger lotus swords that like it hot (E.bleheri e.Ozolet (both red and green) E.red flame E.Green flame e. marble queen (not too good above 28C but it works in my tank) E.red october, E.red devil, E.devils eye, E.tropica/ lepoard,E.chrimson sails). stay away from cooler water swords like amazonicus(some people grow it hot but I cant) horizontalis, portoalegrensis, opacus, horemanni, apart (again some people grow it well mine seems to struggle). I dont grow crypts so i cant comment if your in syd I can proably fix you up with some BIG bleheri and HUGE marblequeen to get you started.


I've used aquasonic ferts, VERY high in iron got hair algae EVERYWARE at 1/2 dose, personally prefer seachem or redsea products i wont be using aquasonic again once my stock runs out.

I've just bought eco complete for my new 6x2x2 planted discus tank, havn't used it yet but i've been using florabase and am very happy, this stuff is said to be better,
if admin allows try this link its a planted discus tank setup for 30C its an older article but the plant species it recomends are spot on.
good luck post pics when your done.

http://article.discusnews.com/cat-04/plantsetup.shtml

[Erk]

I dont mean to steal anyones thread, but Im curious with all this dosing of liquid ferts......does bio-chem zorb suck the ferts right up? I use it in my tank, have black hair algae on lots of plants...gonna do the bleach dip soon, but I am curious if the zorb sucks it all up? I havent dosed liquid ferts in quite some time for this specific reason...should I remove it from my cannister?

Thanks....and sorry if I stole your thread...I wish you good luck with your algae problem

[ILLUSN]

Erk I believe any resin that removes organic toxins and waste from water (eg NH4+) will also remove charged metalic ions (ie trace elements). I might be wrong and please correct me anyone who knows. if you have BBAalgae up your CO2 and as new leaves grow remove the old affected leaves. Dad uses biochem zorb in his tank and everything has BBA, but his fish are VERY happy.

[Erk]

Thanks ILLUSN....a lot of my plants are covered with this stuff, and I have two of the red sea systems, but I think next time I will use pressurized! I guess I could remove the bio-chem zorb and see how things go over a week or so...I dont mind the looks of it, but I do think I would like it BETTER if it was gone! haha! Im gonna do the bleach dip this weekend too...see how that goes

Thanks again, and again...sorry for stealing the thread, I thought the question kinda fit here

[pbates]

Don't worry about adding your questions :)

My experience from past algae battles is that the absorbing filter medias just make things worse.

I'm sure someone will have a more accurate idea, but it seems that different varieties of algae thrive on different macro / micro nutirents unlike plants which require all of them.

So if you start ripping selected nutrients out with bio zorb or phosphate absorbers for instance you will stunt the plants growth and get a different type of algae bloom.

[Erk]

So if you start ripping selected nutrients out with bio zorb or phosphate absorbers for instance you will stunt the plants growth and get a different type of algae bloom.

Got one of those, guess I should remove all my zorbs then :oops: hahaha

Thanks much, my readings are low enough by now!

[Erk]

Well I removed all the zorbs except the phos-zorb, since the phosphates are always very high, nitrates are down, and I dont want the bio-chem absorbing all my ferts....will see how things go for a lil while :D

Thanks a lot!