Mad Discus Disease

[ivo]

The following have happened to me twice now and i dont have a clue. All water parameters are fine and every discus looks healthy and normal but one discus got freaked out for no reason and kept hitting itself on the tank. Then ususally within the following couple of days this discus would continue freaked out of nothing until it died. Before this happened the problem discus looked healthy and normal, even when it died it's body was still normal looking. First time happened to one discus about 10 months ago and last time was couple of days ago. I really don't get it. Have this happened to other fellow discus keepers on this forum? or anyone has a slightest idea of why? Thanks.

[scott bowler]

it sounds like a parasite of some sort a fluck or some thing

[ivo]

Scott, it didn't display any syptoms with parasite hosting on it nor does any other discus. Very strange. I hope thats the last time i see this because i don't know what to do to rescue it.

[Dat]

Maybe a little Exorcism might do the trick.

"Be gone ye devil parasite!" :twisted:


Sorry i'm no help. :oops:

[DiscusEden]

Hey Dat, if you're up for an exorcism, there's another thread where a guy's got a posessed discus - called "red eye".

Sorry to pinch your thread ivo.

What makes you think it can't be a parasite? Just asking 'cos Scott's usually pretty spot on, so I know you wouldn't dismiss it without reason.

It's possible that the behavoiur you describe might be the only symptom, so if it fits better with a parasite than anything else, that might be worth treating for as a preventative.

JMHO.

[ivo]

Hello, i didn't think it is parasite related because it did not rub itself against object nor has any fin contraction. There was no obvious parasite that my eye could see on the body. Also, all other discus show no sign of parasite. It could be heart attack maybe!!!!!!! who knows but it means now i can buy another discus to replace it's spot. Next!!!!!

[DiscusEden]

Lol. You think the same way I do!

Do you do worming on a regular basis?

[ivo]

Yes i do worm every six months or so.

[mistakes r crucial]

Some fish have aneurisms which will kill them, the actions of the fish when having them sound very similar to what you have experienced. They fly around the tank, sometimes hitting the top and sides of a tank and then do a couple of circles and die. It would be very unusual for more than one Discus in a tank to have one but I suppose anything is possible.
MAC

[stonedavid]

Hi Ivo, Do you have any lead in your tank. Racing around the tank bashing into things and spasms are also the syptoms of lead poisoning. Small amounts of lead ie plant weights etc are ok, but sometimes larger amounts leech lead toxins into the water. Just thought this may help if you haven't solved the problem so far.
Rgds
Pete

[ivo]

Thanks Mac. Happened twice but in a space of 10 months over two different discus. Quite horrible when they went spastic for no reason.

Hey Pete, couple of weeks ago my thermometer broke and some of those little balls dropped out. I removed those balls as many as i could and as much as i can see. Perhaps it may have something to do either that or what Mac said.

[Nathan]

sounds like flukes to me, have a close look at there behaviour specially there breathing and make sure there breathing from both gills.

if its not flukes then theres something irritating them in your water, what things do you add? also do you have a deoderiser thing that sprays in the house?

sounds like its either flukes, some sort of poisoning or chemical in there they dont like.

[mistakes r crucial]

Hi Ivo,

Not sure what's in those thermometers but if they're like the very old ones years ago they're mercury based so not good for tanks with fish in them. Hopefully you've got rid of it all.
MAC

[Gajowa]

Hi everyone
I write to you from Poland. I lived in Australia over 18 years and was an ADA member
I met with this problem after purchase wild Heckel discus.
In January this year we imported from Brazil wild Heckel discus fish (7 fish). After treatment on skin lession, fish climatized in new conditions very quickly. They feed on secnod day. They were wormed with metronidazol and levamisol 10% given in food. After 2 weeks from arrival one fish began how we call this crazy swimming in aquarium. She swam in total amok rolling circles, but not around own axis. We applied her bath in salty water ( 150gr / 10 l) for 20 minutes. After this intervention fish calmed down. However, every 2 weeks fish had such attacks. It happened 3 times. After last attack we decided to give her a bath in capifosie (neguvon). Bath of 5 days, 1 capsule / 30 l. And was quiet for 2 weeks again. Last week she again got an attack. She was speeding on the surface of water on one side. Then she tried to beat into a bottom (sand) like a cork-screw. Remaining fish clearly pushed it away and did not want her nearer. I took her on an autopsy ( 2 hours before died unfortunately)and woman doctor which she conducted examination found a fungus called Ichthyosporidium hoferi. All fish's organs were attacked. Disease name is Ichtiofonoza. It attacks in fish's body different organs. If it will get into circulation of blood, from here then attacks fish's brain ,that is why fish have such symptoms.
The fish that you lost were breed in Australia? or they were from Azja?

Maybe it will help.

Barbara

[scott bowler]

Barbara that very intreasting info thank you for sharing that with up , that my explain some of the the things that we see here some times thank you scott

[ivo]

Thank you for the info. The discus i bought was from a local LFS and it was an import. I had the fish for 6 months before he went crazy. I did considering to put xanax into the tank to claim it down but well, i rather to have it myself.....just joking!!

[stonedavid]

Hi Ivo, Small amounts of lead ie from a thermometer wldnt have an effect. Alot of aquarists forget that the foam filters some of them have do actually have a lead base covered in plastic. If this protective cover over the lead perishes then the lead if it hasnt been smeltered correctly can give off toxins. Only worry about lead if there is a known source within the tank, other than that it possibly is something as simply as flukes or parasites.

[Andrew Soh]

Hello friends,

Though Barbara's information is very interesting, it seems that Ichthyosporidium hoferi occurs more frequently in seawater animal than in freshwater...though there is still a possibility.

Basically, when the infection by IH occurs...it takes a long-term chronic infestation to reach critical level leading to death. Also, in most cases, though it invades most of the internal organs...generally it will first attack and attach to the epidermis and spreading starts from there.

By the time it can cause mortality...and is usually daily mortality in culture tanks.... you will notice the dropping off large area of scales just like the another fungus infection know as Aphanomyces infection.

Both attack live tissue and spread just underneath the thin layer of the epidermis....and fishes will during the whole phase of infection, brush their affected area against object.

Since Ivo case is a mortality in 10 months and only two so far...the cause may be due to other reasons.

In my opinion, it might be a blood flagellate that may have penetrated the brain....just my opinion..hmm...
Usually this infection attack one or two discus at a time. Once a infected discus dies and oxygen depleted, the parasite will escape and attack another discus low in immunity...and so on. To stop this problem...those infected should be discard before it dies.

No autopsy...no concrete diagnosis. Even with autopsy...identification of parasite present may not be the cause of the problem.....there may be multiple infections and the one responsible for the mortality may be overlooked or unidentified....sometimes.... :wink:

Just my opinion,
Take care,
Andrew :wink:

[ivo]

Thank you so much for your invaluable oppinion Andrew. Lucky i threw away the discus before it was dead. I thought i was being cruel doing that but now given with your information i think i did the right thing so the parasite couldn't escape and attach another fish with low immunity. The fish world can be very simple but it can also be so complicated, full of unknowns! Thanks again everyone i appreciated that.

[Andrew Soh]

You are welcome, buddy...

I may be wrong too..

Have a nice day,
Andrew :wink: