Screwing up! haha....no surprise

[Erk]

So i tested the pH in the q tank tonight, and found that it is at least 7.2, maybe 7.6 blue on the API kit I use :( Dunno how long its been like that, I was trying to make the water I put in 6.6, with my daily 25% water changes. Im pretty sure it was around 6.4 when they arrive a week ago. I see now I def. need to pay more attention to what is going on in the tank as well as my fresh water. I was planning on slowly raising the pH to 7.0 over the course of a month so they would fit in the big tank a lil better.

The yellow red ribbon who is the biggest is the only one really doing anything anymore, they do seem to eat, no white poo or anything, but they just hang out together in the botton left corner of the tank. I have attached a pic, sorry about the quality, it was with my camera phone, but all three of them are in that corner. I want to back the pH down, but I dunno how to go about this. Also the scorpion seems to breathe a lil funny...its like his gills on his side kinda pop occasionally in his breathing pattern.

Im sorry if this isnt urgent, and should be in another spot...feel free to move it.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions on what to do now :(

[Greggy]

Hi Erk,

Disclaimer: I am a Discus NOOB so I could be completely wrong with any advice, but here goes...

Don't stress too much about the pH or hardness just yet. My 6 juvenile Discus (some as small as 4cm in total size) are thriving and my pH hovers between 7.2 and 7.4, and my water is so hard the fish almost bounce off it when you pour them in from the LFS bag :)

I have read that young Discus actually don't mind hard water, and that captive bred juveniles are quite tolerant to higher PH levels. I think the key is not letting the pH fluctuate too much. This might happen if your trying to lower your pH with RO water or chemicals, as these might cause pH swings which are actually worse than a steady slightly non-ideal pH level.

Also, do you run an airstone? If not I would suggest you get an airstone and a quiet air-pump right away. When I first set up my new 6x2x2 I was hoping that the water current alone from the two canister filters would provide enough oxygen for the fish, plants and nitrifying bacteria colonies as one of the filters (at that time) was an Eheim 2227 Wet/Dry which provides excellent gas exchange. However after having some problems with the Eheim 2227 I swapped it for a big Aqua One 2450 UV-C filter that is the conventional 'wet' style of canister filter with a built-in 5Watt UV sterilizer. I noticed that after removing the Eheim 2227 Wet/Dry that I had quite a bit of film on the top of the water, and that all the fish seemed to 'dull down' and become sluggish, especially 1st thing in the morning (this is a heavily planted tank). I did some thinking and came to the conclusion that perhaps the oxygen levels were low, so I added an air stone to both stir the water around and also break up the film on the surface of the water, and sure enough it seemed to add 'life' back into the tank, as all fish became very active again.

A good sign was that the 24 Cardinal Tetras become bright in colour again and where zooming around looking for food and chasing one another... before the air stone they just floated around as if they were tired.

And do you really need daily 25% water changes at the moment? What are your reasons for changing water this often? I have 6 juvi Discus, 9 Black Neons, 24 Cardinals, 5 SAEs, 2 BNs and 4 Corys and so far I've only had very low (less than 10ppm) Nitrate readings, with Ammonia and Nitrite showing below detection limit - this is the beauty of large 'forgiving' tanks. I'm just thinking that if your new water still contained traces of fluoride or chlorine etc that this 'new' water constantly being pumped into their tank might be causing more harm than good. For me a weekly 20% water change is currently doing the job, as all the fish are happy, plants are growing and Nitrates are staying low.

Regards,

Greggy

[fishgeek]

shy new fish with no where to hide

and

subclinical gill fluke

again no discus experience here!
andrew

[Erk]

Thanks for your help Greggy and fishgeek, I do 40% water change once a week in my big tank(no discus), the daily 20-25% was in the quarantine tank with the 3 juvies....through reading threads on here, it sounded like daily water changes (at least to get the leftover food and poop out) was a good thing for juvies? They seemed to be doing ok last night, so I didnt do a water change, so we will see what happens when I get home from work tonight. I think I will just use the 7.0 stabilizer like I do in my big tank, so it stays steady for them, and it will match the big tank, hopefully I didnt mess them up too much with this, as I dunno when I did this to them, but with the stabilizer I should be ok, and I will pay more attention to what the pH is in the tank, and what the pH is in my bucket of new water. I will get an airstone for each tank soon and see how things go as you suggested.


subclinical gill fluke

Is there something I should pick up for this a while, just in case something were to go a lil more downhill with the scorpions breathing? I dont have ANY meds right now

Thanks a lot for the help!

[fishgeek]

praziquantel in prazi pro is fairly readily available state side

try jehmco or others for it

gill scrapes would give you an answer on gill flukes

adrew

[Erk]

thanks fishgeek....im at work right now, and the woman is home and I asked her to test the ammonia and it is 4, so I def. do have issues, and I dont really know how to proceed, I guess a big water change. I will take a look at those meds, and hopefully I dont need to use them, but somehow I keep screwing things up...I guess the sponge filter is no good too?

I unhooked the marineland biowheel filter from the big tank over the weekend, and Im gonna have her float it in the big tank for a while, and I guess I will hook that up to the quarantine tank

ANy sugggestions are greatly appreciated

Thanks!!

[Erk]

Ok ammonia of 2-4...she isnt sure cause its hard to tell with the API test kit. She is gonna hook up the biowheel filter and put a blue filter cartridge pad(carbon) with the white diamond(ammonia remover) in it. The wheel itself is floating in my big tank right now, while she gets everything else ready. I think since the filter has been unhooked all weekend, it prolly lost all its "good" stuff, but I dont have any other ideas...I will do a water change when I get home, provided they are all still alive :? Only took me a week to realize these fish are prolly very mad at me for all my screwups, but hopefully I can get things under control soon, and they will be fine. I do plan on lowering the pH back down, but I was always told to do it slowly which is fine, but does this still apply when things are outta control like this already?

Thanks for any help and suggestions!

[Robdog]

Dose with Prime daily or some other product that detoxifies ammonia and nitrite until your bacteria recovers and can handle the bioload. And probably feed sparingly or not at all for a day or two

[Erk]

Thanks Robdog, I told her, and she dosed with prime, and hooked the biowheel filter up for me with the white diamond and carbon pad, and the filter is for a 50 gallon tank so it creates a lot of motion she said, so I dunno if I like that, but I guess its ok for a lil while? I guess I should unplug it before feeding next time I feed them. I guess that sponge filter wasnt doing the job. Its in a 20 gallon, and I got the one for a 25 gallon, and seeded it in the big tank for a lil over a week before they arrived, so I dunno what happened...Im always good for overfeeding tho! But they def. eat the food! Any suggestions on how to go about lower pH at this point? Im sure they are very stressed with the new filter, and high ammonia, and higher then planned pH, so I dunno what to do now

Thanks very much...Im calming down a lil bit :)

[Erk]

Ammonia is back down to zero, but the darn pH wont budge! Its a good 7.6, and I know my buckets of fresh water during my last few water changes was 7.0 or less, but the tank just wont budge! :(

Thanks for everyones help! Any suggestions on lower pH would be great

Thanks!

[ILLUSN]

if 7 is all you can keep it at then leave it there, juveniles do better in slightly hard(er) water (and so with a higher ph) then adults it helps their skeletons form well.

[Erk]

Thanks ILLUSN, I can make the pH whatever, I have pH increaser, decreaser, and 7.0 stabilizer, and I was mostly concerned with how it got so high to begin with, and how to go about lowering it, I believe it is 7.2 now, so its coming back down, and they seem to be doing a lil bit better. I guess I will just get it down to 7.0, like my big tank, and leave things alone, then the transfer wont be so bad

Thanks again

[ILLUSN]

Keeping up your RO changes will lower your ph and thats proably the safest way to do it, if your doing 25% a day that will work very well, also try filtering through peat to drop ph. your fish willl love it!!, Sorry I bet you wish you bought a bigger canister now, your Rena must be running out of space :)

[Erk]

Thanks ILLUSN, Im still doing the 25% per day. I dont have peat, and also, in the quarantine tank, its just a sponge filter, and the biowheel filter, so no cannister on that tank, but yeah, in the big tank, a bigger cannister would be nice :shock: I really dont have any room left, and Im not even using the biochem zorb anymore right now. I think i just need to relax about things and see how it goes. They seem to swim a good bit more now a days, and tuesday will be two weeks they were here for, so I guess they are still settling in. I just hope nothing is wrong with the scorpion. I havent noticed his gill "popping" recently...so maybe it was from the high ammonia readings.

Thanks again :D

[ILLUSN]

I'm sure they'll do great, just keep an eye on that ammonia lol. They'll look FANTASTIC in your plant tank, cant wait for the pics.

[Erk]

Thanks ILLUSN, maybe i do need to calm down a lil bit....I just get concerned cause of all the things Ive read. I cant wait for them to be in the planted tank! I will def. get lots of pics of that!! :D

[Erk]

I got an airstone for the big tank, and it is set to be on when the lights go off for right now, if I need to change that later, I will. The sponge filter I think works kinda the same in the Q tank, and with the biowheel filter hooked up, it gets a lot of filtration, and unfortunately a lot of water current, but its only temporary

Thanks :D