blue balloon rams

[fish_r]

just a cpl of pics of my new blue balloon rams, not too colourfull yet as the pic was taken just after i put em in, got 3 of em :) hoping to get more...

[DiscusEden]

Mine looked a bit like that for a day or so. :cry: But less colour and more with the rolling around upside down.

But yours are cute little things! Nice colour for only having had them for a day. :o Good luck with them! Let us know how they go? I'd love to see them again when they've had a chance to colour up. (Small hint - more pics please?)

Are they in the 3 foot?

[fish_r]

did u get ur from Amazon DE ?
sorry to hear they arnt well :(
i took about 20 photos to get them 2 pics lol, time for a new camera i think...
will try get some more pics soon as i can for u :) good excuse anyway :lol:
yep trying them in the 3ft again now the tank has had time to settle...
i actually prefer the look of these rams to the standard ones now :)

[DiscusEden]

Hey, they're alive, I prefer that look too!

No, never been to Amazon. Got the males from the LFS down the road from me, and the females from the lfs near work - impulse buy. One of each might live. Maybe. They look OK for now. The golds seem hardier than the blues - I thought it was supposed to be the other way around.

Yours are pretty little things, I like them! All males?

Good luck with the more photos - just 'cos it's nearly impossible doesn't get you off the hook!

[fish_r]

lol :lol:
is that the shop at Mt Barker ? seen them advertising on TV lately and also pic of the discus on the advert nearly made me pack a lunch and head out for a look :wink: alway keen to suss new shops out :)
is good the rams are so cheap, mine were an impulse buy too :)
i have my fingers crossed for ur's :)

not sure what sex mine are, i'm "HOPELESS" at sexing fish :( but they all look the same to me ?
hopefully get u some more pics soon :P

[DiscusEden]

I was told the thick black stripe at the front of the top fin (?dorsal??) indicates it's a male. Then again, it might indicate they're selling me colourless grey fish & they saw me coming a mile off.

Based on that, your photos should be males? Do they display at each other?

Haven't been to the Mt Barker one either - was going to, but a friend said the tanks at the Stirling one were cleaner - before you ask, haven't been there yet either - are you seeing a theme yet?

It was the one at Belvue Heights I got the males from. So purdy!

By the way, anyone feel free to correct me at any point here!

[Th0mas]

I would think it's more closer to a female - though I'm no ram expert.

Just the extra pink/red in the belly area and the more intense black marking on the pelvic fins.

From another site:

male balloon ram
http://www.aquariumfarm.com/phpBB2/files/testing__18_.jpg


female balloon ram
http://www.aquariumfarm.com/phpBB2/files/testing__12_.jpg

normal male ram
http://www.aquariumfarm.com/phpBB2/files/_____039a.jpg

normal female ram
http://www.aquariumfarm.com/phpBB2/files/_____028a.jpg

[gingerbeer01]

Agree with thomas top picture is definitely a female. Two best ways to judge sex are the pink belly is female, and the black spot tends to have blue sparkly bits in females and not in males.

Also supposedly front ray of top fin is longer in males - but recently I have seen a lot of females with this trait.

Get yourself a nice german ram and you will soon pass on the balloons. I just picked up another pair yesterday. Will have to try for some pictures, but they are in a breeder tank at the moment.

Steve

[fish_r]

thx for the info and pics guys :)

[Robdog]

I personally think the balloons should be culled.

[Nathan]

im with u rob, i havnt seen any good quality blue rams for quite sometime down here.

[fish_r]

I personally think the balloons should be culled.
ok u reply with an answer like that, now how about backing it up with a reason ! ???

[wickedglass]

don't choke on your chicken, Thomas, but these are our new Balloonkribs we're working on!
they're not quite ready yet, but hopefully one day they will breed true ... these ones are too young for colour, yet, but the original stock these came from are the shizzle ... unfortunately the parents died recently ... one day fine, the next dead for apparently no discernable reason ... oh well, we have over 100 offspring ... some normals and some ballooned. these guys are 3rd generation ... when they get bigger they get more depth in the body.

[wickedglass]

oh, I do prefer normal fish, btw, but this is a fun project...

[Robdog]

ok u reply with an answer like that, now how about backing it up with a reason ! ???

It's pretty simple fish_r. They are deformed fish and should be culled to prevent them breeding.
BUT, I'm guessing that you bought them knowing that they are not normal and think they look good so that's great.

IMO they are great for cycling new tanks.

[Rod]

I suppose it's a personal choice but I find "balloon fish" abhorrent.

They are shorter because of a deformed spine....what's next....no dorsal fin.....bubble eyes....double tails....chop the tail off so the dorsal and anal fins grow together?

Millions of dollars are spent each year trying to find ways to minimise deformities in humans....but it's the other way round with pets....just because the market is always looking for something New....not better....just different

Why not a breeding program to develop better colours that would be novel?

[Th0mas]

Honestly it's all about what people like.

Of course these deformed fish won't survive to produce offspring in the wild, so their existence is due to artificial selective breeding effort.

Like hybrid, they maybe appealing to some while dislike by others. But one thing for certain - they don't suppose to exist before human intervention.

Won't go into cosmetically altered fish......

[DiscusEden]

So on that basis are gold rams out as well because they're not naturally occurring?

[Robdog]

Not necessarily C. Different colour morphs can happen in the wild. Maybe a little ram with some yellow in it, takes a liking to another ram with some yellow in it. Their offspring may come out with a little more yellow on them.
It may just happen by chance but it could happen. Aquarium strains are produced at a much greater rate than they would normally reproduce in the wild so selective breeding can and does take place and therefore more obvious colour differences in shorter time.

Retarded fish like balloons are different. In the wild the parents would probably pick these fish off and naturally cull them. If they did slip through the parental cull net their chances of survival would be severely reduced by the fact that their swimming style would be impaired and therefore easier for predators.
And some other hocus pocus about a larger gene pool reducing the chances of inbreeding blah blah blah.
I hate being serious :roll: :wink:

[DiscusEden]

That argument could also be used for albinos - they may well occur in the wild, but they'd be naturally selected out, much like the golds.

I think that unless it impacts on the animal's ability to function in the aquarium setting, or its ability to live without pain, if there's a decent gene pool of the wild strain available (you're not mixing strains), I don't see any problem in selectively breeding for certain things.

After all, there are dog breeds, colour variations in cats, birds and most domestic animals, which we have no problem with.

Maybe the argument is about whether we see these fish as domesticated or wild?

[Rod]

Personally....I don't like Gold Rams....or albino strains...but that is because I don't believe they are an improvement on the original....just different. It is obviously a lot harder to produce high quality fish(like the Germans) than it is to exploit unnatural deformities.

I'm stating my opinion....not everyone will agree with me....and I am prepared to listen to any argument that may have me reconsider my opinion.

I'd still prefer an original Angel or discus to the human modified strains.

Perhaps the only human modified fish that is prettier than the original is a show quality halfmoon betta ???

[gingerbeer01]

Any time we breed fish in a simulated enviroment we are going to have fish survive that shouldn;t. There is then a question of ethics in terms of how much is too much.

The balloon ram may have come about by selecting for deformed back bones, nad hence deformed swim bladders, may have come about due to chemical interferance (although I understand that they breed true that kindof makes that questionable to me)

They are also supposedly not as hardy as the normal form,

Personally I like a "natural" looking fish and hence like the normal form - and say to all - check out a good german bred line.

I will include a picture of my old dad and son establishing domniance.

Either way these poor ballooned fish did not ask to be treated like this and I hope you care for them well. I would like to see people breed more for colour as many fish are becoming ordinary and many local bred rams suffer from too much poor breeding and become quite weak too.

(As i I said in my previous post I just bought a new pair of germans and this line looks interesting with more of the barring look I associate with wild fish.)

Steve


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/gingerbeer/Dsc00194.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/gingerbeer/Dsc00195.jpgv

[wickedglass]

is the out-of-focus look a genetic trait? I want some of those ... Unfocusgeophagus ramirezi!
:)

[wickedglass]

oh, and as for german bred lines ... I've found some here in melbourne ... not germans, but a dutch line and they're awesome! unfortunately I need a new girl from somewhere, after 7 months she's gone to ram heaven :(

[gingerbeer01]

I can teach yhou how to take shots like that if you wish :D

[wickedglass]

I want to learn, master!

[Rod]

I've heard that a lot of "German" bred fish are actually bred in surrounding countries and shipped out of Germany to significantly increase their value.....still top quality fish though. Europeans seem to focus on quality rather than quanity.

[Blybo]

oh, and as for german bred lines ... I've found some here in melbourne ... not germans, but a dutch line and they're awesome! unfortunately I need a new girl from somewhere, after 7 months she's gone to ram heaven :(

Where can I get some??? I've just got back to work from visiting Subscape. Need a new male. They say that good healthy blue rams are almost impossible to get atm. There is a 6 month waiting list with the wholesaler!!! May be if you want to breed them you could have my female.

[momo]

pic of my old ram,

it comes down to personal preference, whether balloon or not. you need to know how they came about but in the end the decision is a personal choice.

my preference is for natural looking :)

[catfishbone]

oh well ...

if you keep this argument then i think there's no end ... anyway now i'm back on trying to breed my blue rams again ... ;)

ok back to work ... :) and good luck everyone .. :)

[catfishbone]

i think been away for too long ...
didn't even read the whole thread and starts replying ... hahahah

well ... forget abt the argument thing ... ;)

cheers