Blue ram died

[DiscusEden]

I know these things can go at the drop of a hat, so I'm not too devastated, but wanted some advice in case it could be contagious...

I've got 12 cardinals & had 1m 2f blue rams and what I think is a male gold ram in a QT tank for the past 3 weeks or so, all from lfs.

They just finished a 10 day course of Sterazin (the male blue ram was seen flicking a couple of times). The next day (4 days ago), the male blue ram lost all his colour & was swimming in little circles at the bottom of the tank. The day after he'd blown up like a balloon & floated to the surface, then died that night. All the others look fine.

The question is this: how long before it's safe to transfer the others to the main tank? Do I need to treat with anything in the meantime?

TIA

[DiscusEden]

Now one of the females has one eye bulging nearly out of the socket.

Would Admin mind moving this to the illness or emergency section please? Whichever you think?

Thanks!

[Th0mas]

I would isolate the infected fish and keep an eye on the remaining in case of further infection.

Do not transfer the remaining to the main tank, in case of some are infected and still going through the incubation stage.

Once it reached the bloat state, it's pretty much terminal as most commercially medication available in Oz is rather useless against infection at that stage.

The bulging eye is also a bad sign. Even if you manage to rescue it, the bulging condition will never recover.

[fish_r]

sorry to hear ur still losing fish DE, it's definatley not from lack of care, dont know much about quarrantining cause i usually dont do it.
but the one with the popeye i would take out and
Euthinase it, cause from what iv'e read it is bacterial and very hard if not impossible to cure, but i could be wrong ?

[DiscusEden]

Thanks guys!

I'm at work at the moment, but will stick her in the freezer when I get home.

Any idea what I should be treating with? I'm thinking I should maybe treat the rest of the tank with something, but not sure what? I've got octazin, prazi and another waterlife product that started with P. Happy to get something else if it's needed. Or should I just keep an eye on it (no pun intended), and if so how long for?

[Th0mas]

The waterlife product starting with P is likely to be Protozin. An anti-fungal treatment, not particularly useful in your situation.

The bloat is generally a secondary infection, which normally is terminal. Do you notice anything other thing (eating disorder, poo characteristic, etc) out of ordinary to the fish before it become bloated? The loss of colour immediate indicate a problem/stress, but difficult to tell without sending a sample to the lab.

For the time being, if the remainder looks fine. I would keep them where they are for another 2 weeks (while keeping up with the water changes, etc). I wouldn't treat unless I can be certain what I'm treating, that's because medication will knock the fish about and a perfectly healthy fish can become ill if they're medicated for no reason.

[DiscusEden]

medication will knock the fish about and a perfectly healthy fish can become ill if they're medicated for no reason.

That might have been the cause, given the timing.

I didn't see anything wrong with him before this hit, and was feeling very proud of him & his colour, although he was so aggressive when I put the food in that I was becoming worried the females weren't getting enough food to survive.

The gold ram had a long pale-beefheart coloured poo a couple of days earlier, but as he was in the middle of a treatment of Sterazin, I thought that if it was worms, they were being treated anyway, and the poo showed no signs of moving or anything.

I haven't noticed any other problems, no redness around the gills or nose prior - oh, I'm a twit - he had a few scales missing & what looked like a bit of flesh hanging off near his head (Top, to behind one eye) when he lost his colour, and I wondered if he'd been in a fight with the gold one, or run into something. Would that have been it? If so, what's up with the lop-sided-googly-eye female?

[fishgeek]

unilateral(one sided) exopthalmus(pop eye) is immintently more treatable then bilateral

anything that cause's strecth of the tissue around the eye will be self perpetuating and would greatly benefit from tpical antiinflammatory steroids

all eye conditions need very good quality water as they will involve some breakdown in the surface defense mechanisms




as far as the male, ascites(fluid accumulation in tha abdominal cavity) can look like bloat(gas accumulation within the intestinal tract) and both of these different conditions end up lumped as dropsy
possible cause involve many varied things from heart failure through to peritonitis, unfortunately lack of improvement with these conditions is likely due to misdiagnosis, especialy with such small fish as rams where investiagtions are limited even at the best of times

andrew

[Th0mas]

I think it would be difficult to access such antiinflammatory steroids without prescription.

Can someone confirm this?

[fishgeek]

you wont get them unless you had them dispensed for you conjunctivitis... or something like that
or they were prescribed by the vet

mike is in a better postion to comment on the oz situation

[DiscusEden]

Well, I think it's a little late for the ram, 'cos I kind of went & acted on previous suggestions before reading this update. If it was a discus or one of my whiptails I'd be more interested in doing whatever I could, but, well, it's not.

But given that I'm more concerned about the implications for the rest of the QT tank than this individual fish, I still very much appreciate the advice & the opportunity to learn. So thankyou!

Do I need to do anything more than observe the QT tank for further problems at this stage for the next 2 weeks, then if they're all clear, put them in?

Am I right in thinking you're saying the 2 conditions are likely to be unrelated?

Thankyou all so very much!

[Pauluk]

I wouldn't stick it in the freezer, thats a cruel way to kill a fish, vodka and clove oil if better, or ethanol would be best.
You know what its like to be in freezing conditions? not nice, so why needlessly put a fish through it....

[fish_r]

thats the reason i said it would be better to Euthinase DE cause i thought trying to source steroids etc for a lowly ol ram was hardly worth the effort and money. ram $7.50 steroids ??? but i'm sure it would cost a lot more than $7.50...


I wouldn't stick it in the freezer, thats a cruel way to kill a fish
i agree, being a long time fisherman, i just cut the head off sick "incurable" fish and have no problem doing this, cause it's a quick death...

[DiscusEden]

Yup. The ram was 10 by the way. Next time I try this I'll be after you for your contacts again!

Vodka? For me or the fish? Sorry, yes, you're right, be nice to the fishy I'm killing.

What about the rest?

[samir]

what kind of ph can these guys tolerate ??

you could up the water changes and mix some antibiotic in food and feed it to them for 10 days or so, tetracycline does not work too well, if you can find a few antibiotic tabs lying around i could try and find the correct dosage for you.

[DiscusEden]

That's a good point. Will check water params again.

Not sure about getting the antibiotics if it's not absolutely necessary?

[samir]

maybe you could get the ph down to as low as they can tolerate, are they an acidic water fish ???

[DiscusEden]

Theyyyy could be? Soon will be? I thought maybe if I keep the pH the same as the tank they are going in to? Or is this more as a temporary treatment?

[Robdog]

The little Rams will love an acid bath. I've had mine at 4.8ph before and they lived through to tell the tale. I think they'd be more comfortable at around 6 but a little lower shouldn't hurt.

[samir]

4.8 would be just brilliant :lol: what is your current ph ?