Eheim's in series

[ILLUSN]

G'day Everyone I've had good results in the past using 2 2213 eheims in series 1 for mechanical and one for biological on a standard 4ft tank, has anyone ever done this with 2 2217's? if so how did you go about connecting the smaller output pipe (12/16mm i think) to the larger intake pipe( 16/22mm) if no one has done this can anyone suggest a way that this could be done?

[ILLUSN]

for anyone who's been watching this post I found the answer from a Grey haired guy at an LFS, EHEIM make a reduce junction 16-22 > 12-16 part number 4004980. he said in the "old days" before good baffled sumps for fish shops EHEIM sold "blank canisters" with no moters for hook up in series. these were driven by EHEIM hobby pumps on the OUTLET ONLY of the final canister, he said if you preasurised the inlet the tops would fly off. the advantage was 1 for mechanical course filtration which was cleaned regularly, 1 for fine mechanical and absorbtive/chemical and a biological that was "never cleaned ???" he said he ran rows of tanks like this them moved on to sumps in the late 80's.

[Merrilyn]

That's a great piece of history Illusn.

:P

[Xtreme]

That is how Pentair Aquatics do there filter systems. You hook up several filter components (in lieu of canisters) and have one pump controlling the flow.

You can still do this with the larger 2250 & 2260 Classic filters as the pumps on those are removable and interchangable.

[ILLUSN]

Well the impeller on the 2017 has finally crapped itself so it's time for another slave canister, pity i cant get parts anymore.

Well learning from the previous 2015 I've made a few changes to the series canister hook up.

[ILLUSN]

to hook up a 2017 to a 2217 in the propper configuration of water flow from bottom to top you'll need a few bits and pices.

a reducing connecter from 16/22mm to 12/16mm. you can use a genuine part for about $10 EH4003980 or bunnings 13/16mm connecter for $1.70. if you use the bunnings part you'll need to heat your hoses to get them on and make sure the cuts are square so they dont leak, even better would be to put on 10-16mm hose clamp($.65).

the bend from the out put of the slave canister to the input of the biocanister is also a problem, you can use a 12mm eheim elbow EH4014050 or hose sleave bend EH4014300 about $7 ea or again a bunning 13mm elbow $0.70, again you'll have to be carefull with your hose.

a double tap also helps alot when your cleaning, which being entirly mech and chemical you should be doing atleast once every 2 weeks.

[ILLUSN]

The slave canister will be for mech filtration only, leaving the powered canister for biofiltration only, combined this gives approx 6L of mech and a full 6L of bio with puts in the same ballpark as a fluval FX5 only with with MUCH LESS FLOW.

for this project 500ml of sintered glass substarte (Aquaone advanced) was added, later when this tank becomes my wild discus tank this will be replaced with 500ml of peat for that "blackwater effect"

[ILLUSN]

the rest of the canister was filled with white wool (3 pads in total) and the impeller removed. It is important to make sure that the prefilter is not powered, as if it were it would preasurise the input of the 2nd canister, this could result in damage to the second moter and complete failure of the seal (the filter head would fly off). the sealing ring was lubriated with a bit of vaseline and hoses connected. i used doubletaps cause I had them lying around and it makes cleaning ALOT LESS messy.

[ILLUSN]

This is setup on my 300L quarentine tank (120cmx60cmx40cm).

The system was flowtested with a vertical height of 90cm from the top of the filter head using 1m of hose. The 2217 in standard configuration of white wool, EFHI substrate, Blue pad, Efhi mech (from top to bottom) flowed at 649.18L/hour. With the prefilter attached the same canister (once all air was purged) flowed at 582.35L/hour. The total flow reduction was 10.3%.

Flow rate was calculated as the time taken to fill a 12L bucket to the 11L mark. Raw data is "normal" 2217 61 seconds "prefiltered" 2217 68 seconds

Once the mech media is removed from the powered canister the system will be flowtested again.

THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL I"D WASTE A GOOD EHEIM AS A PREFILTER! however, in such a case where you cant get parts and you have an old eheim, fluval 3 series or sacem lying around doing nothing, for a 10% reduction if flow you can double your filtration capacity, and extend the benifts of your existing biological filter.

Comments, Questions and Criticisium as always welcome :wink:

Jothy

[TW]

Hi Jothy

Following on from http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20360&highlight= where you linked me to this thread.


THERE IS NO WAY IN **** I"D WASTE A GOOD EHEIM AS A PREFILTER! You don't recommend this then? Or is it just that you wouldn't especially buy a brand new eheim filter with this intention in mind?

So, if I do this, my flow reduces, but I do extend the benifts of my existing biological filter ???
Does that mean that I have increased the filtering capacity by doing this ???

ATM, I am trying to juggle around some filters, so my 79G is sufficiently filtered, but without having a filter at each end. My other tanks mostly do have an eheim at each end, but on this one I'm part way through installing a 3D backgrounds & it would kill the look to have filter pipes at the oppposite end (as well as where I originally planned for them to be).

I'd really would like to see this tank well or over filtered, as I will be going slightly over recommended stocking level of 1 adult discus per 10G (given there will be 8 in 79G).

I hoped that by doing this, I'd be increasing my filtration capacity, but without the jumble of extra pipes? Would this plan achieve my goal?

About the reduction of flow & the effects on my UV. I had thought a slight decrease in flow would be better for the UV kill rate, rather than the other way around? Up to a point, the slower the flow, the longer the exposure & the higher the kill rate - right ??? I know there are other factors involved too.

The manufacturer of my UV said: "as a rule they recommend turning a fresh water tank over no less than one time an hour & that turning it over more frequently is great." From the rates you quote, Jothy, I should still easily be turning over at least 1.5 x tank volume in an hour.

So I think I am ok with the 2 cannisters in sequence in regard to not stuffing up UV performance - or am I missing something important here? I can be easily confused with this UV stuff LOL

Does it make any difference if the bigger capacity cannister is the first in the sequence, as long as it is only the 2nd cannister that is powered up?

You recommend taking out the impellor in the 1st cannister - not just making sure you don't plug it in?

[ILLUSN]

I Just wouldn't spend the money on a brand new ehim just to have it as a slave canister, the extra media volume is amazing, but best of all because the mech media is in the 1st caniter cleaning is easy, just clean the mech media canister once a month and the 2nd bio canister every 3 months or so.

the lower flow rate will only make your uv better but generally i like to turn a tank over atleast 2x an hour, 3x is even better imo but with 10L+ of filter media the biocapacity is pretty close to that of an eheim 2080 so 1.5-2x an hour should be fine.

removing the impeller just removes a flow restriction.

if i were you i'd put the 20281st and the 2217 2nd the reason is the 2028 uses 16mm inlet AND outlet houses, so you could conect the outlet of your 2020 to the inlet of the 2217 and not need a reducer (reducer = restriction = less flow).

also the 2028 is easier to clean and since this filter will be cleaned more often you may as well make it as painless for yourself as possible.

the other thing i would do is use a reducer on the outlet of the 2217 so go from 12mm hose to 16mm hose, less starin on the moter and that way you can use yout 2028 bends and spray bar which are much better then the 2217's

[TW]

Sorry Jothy - just realised the 2nd one, the one that will be powered up, is a 2215.

Does this change anything?

[ILLUSN]

Yes it does 2215 uses 12mm hoses in and out you have to use it 2nd because if you put it first the 12mm hose will starve the 2028 for water (not enough flow.

just use some reducers, also try ans step the 2215 a little lower then the mech filter. these filters work on a siphonic intake, that is that gravity pulls water into the canister and pump pushes water out, they dont "suck" water very well at all. if you look at the above picture you see the powered canister is lower then the unpowerd canister for this reason.

[TW]

Ok, so if that combination isn't ideal - then I could a 2028 / 2026 combination. Their hoses are the same.

In this combination, would I have the 2028 first?

Space in my cabinet is tight. I might be able to raise the first cannister a little, but not by much. If I raise it by a brick height, is that enough?

I think I understand the setup. The unpowered filter (the one first in line) has it's intake pipe in the tank. It's cannister is stocked in the usual manner. It's out pipe connects to the 2nd filter, which is powered up. That filter only has sponges & what not. If it only has sponges, is there any reason I need to keep using the baskets. Could I just pack it up with sponges?

As these two filters have the same size hoses & tubes, I wouldn't need to do anything fancy, such as using reducers, elbows, sleeves, etc? Or do I?

[ILLUSN]

1st canister has its intake inthe tank, this canister is mech and bio filtration (say noodles sponges a little bio media) this filter gets cleaned often, second filter is bio media only, it gets cleaned rarely, as the 1st filter catches all the junk and muck from the tank.

1st filter has no impeller, 2nd filter is powered.
1st filter is higher then 2nd filter so gravity can pull water from first into second.

classic series work better as the second filter they have their intake down the bottom not at the top, so you get a nice gravity drop into the canister. generally they have a higher Hmax then the pro series (2217 Hmax 2.3m vs 2028 Hmax 2.0m).

if your tank is only 300L a 2026 and a 2215 would still be overkill if you were to use the 2028 2026 combo power your 2028 that way you can elevate your 2026 and not run out of height in your cabinet, also the bigger bio volume of the 2028 would be wasted as a mech filter.

[TW]

Well, I can still do it with 2215, but since that would involve reducers, and reducers = restrictions = reduced flow rate - that's what made me think of doing the 2026 / 2028 combo.

Out of the choices, which do you think is my best option:-

2026 / 2028 combo or
2028 / 2215 combo

Is it worthwhile doing this at all?

thanks again

[ILLUSN]

either option would be fine i'd still go the 2028/2215 but to be honest you'll have much better filtration if you just bite the bullet and have one at each end of the tank

[TW]

Stuffs up the Back to Nature background I've been working on, if I have one on either end, but will think on it

[TW]

Riviving this thread of Jothy's.

Could the baby eheim classic, the 2211 work as a prefilter if attached to pro 3 2075? I know the hoses are different sizes, but using those reducer thingys, I could fix that

Any issues with using the 2211?

[TW]

bump :)

[ILLUSN]

shouldn't be but the 12mm hose in and out would slow your flow a bit, if your using a pro3 series just add your floss inplace of the blue pad and change it weekly, the prefiltration would be just about perfect with no loss of flow and the plumbing would be much easier.

just dont get slack on the maintence.

[TW]

Thanks

Does he floss work better than the blue sponge as a pre-filter?

[ILLUSN]

floss is finner, the idea of a pre filter is to trap all the gunk before it gets to your media where it settles out and eventually clogs the small pores.

[TW]

Haven't put the pro 3 2075 into action yet - in only arrived in the mail yesterday, but was pleased to see eheim got rid of the pipe going up through the middle of the baskets that the pro II's have.

Do you find the priming function in your pro 3 actually works?

[BobbyBruce]

Hi Robyn,

I found the priming function struggled on my 2028 but there were two other issues that may have impacted on that particular performance.

One is that the top of the glass is 170cm (max head height is 180) and the outflow pipe adds a couple of cm to that.

The other problem is that at the moment I have my UV filter in before the 2028. I was getting some water into the system but not enough to run the motor.

In the end I disconnected the couplings and opened the valves manually. I was a bit surprised to get a huge rush of water (hand me the towels please), which flushed out the rest of the air from the system. No further problems.

Regards,

Bob

PS, the latest pics of the new wild set up are great, thanks for sharing.

[ILLUSN]

pro3 priming is flawless, you have no idea how good this series of filters till you try them out, have a play you'll be impressed.

[taksan]

This is cool I love funky Eheim $hit