Why did my Blue Ram die

[Dearra]

I had the most beautiful, colourful ram up until today, when I found him floating. He looked like he had blown up like a balloon and his mouth was wide open. It also looked like he had tufts of cotton wool poking out of his sides. But that could also be from the others pecking at him. I am not sure. I did a test on the water for ph, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate and they were all spot on. Does anyone have a clue as to what happened to him.

Thanks Dearra

[wickedglass]

the tufts sound like fungus. the injuries cause by other fish pecking on him may have precipitated the fungal attack.
sorry to hear you lost a beautiful fish

[Robdog]

:stupid I had 3 Apisto elizabethae die in a similar way.$$$$$ :cry:
When something goes belly up in my tanks they are usually dead weights and become BN food before I get to them whereas these guys were found floating with mouths wide open. Fish TB has been suggested but I'm not so sure.

Bad luck about the ram. It's always the good ones that go first

[DiscusEden]

Sorry to hear about the ram.

Are the others still OK Dearra?

[FishLover]

I lost one of my male rams just two days back. I think he lost the fight with the other male ram. I now have two females and one male in the tank. I think the male is really enjoying this arrangement. He is busy taking care of his two wifves. The females sometimes do a bit of chase each other. No major fights. The male just sit back and try to be at two place at the same time. I guess that's what a cheating husband will do too. ;-)

[Dearra]

I have another male ram and he is fine. Somehow I think he may have had something to do with it, because they used to fight all the time.

[pboersma]

Rams are very territorial. It's best to keep only a paired couple in a tank. If you have a larger tank and have two guaranteed pairs you probably won't have a problem, but if they're not paired up the males will be very aggressive to each other. I wish I could have more blue rams, I love them.

[FishLover]

I lost my 3rd one today. Got four of them two weeks ago and only one left. They looked fine the day before. Eating, showing off good colors. The next day, you found them dead.

I guess that's it for me on rams. I will see how long the last male last.

[mistakes r crucial]

If you don't get Rams from a good, reliable source forget it, they're a pain in the ass. There is so much crap flying around today and a large proportion of the Rams we get here in Oz are from Asia, they are interbred, diseased and full of who knows what. Unless you know you're getting quality give them a miss, more heart ache than they're worth.

Not much different to Altums as many people here have found out.
MAC

[samir]

If you don't get Rams from a good, reliable source forget it, they're a pain in the ass.

I could not agree more :x

[Dearra]

Last one died today. Yesterday he was fine.

[DiscusEden]

I'm so sorry Deara.

Is there anything else in the tank? If so are the tankmates OK?

[scott bowler]

i always loss them too i have given up on the little beautis but i love the fish but i always loss them

[mistakes r crucial]

I doubt it has much to do with you Scott, more like the quality or lack of we get here with Rams.
MAC

[FishLover]

I had 3 dead in the last two weeks. I bought 2 pairs and only one big male left. He grew a bit bigger in these two weeks.

They were fine one day and next day dead on the tank floor. Really piss me off! I paid $10 for each of them. $30 out already.

[mistakes r crucial]

All too familiar story. I reckon the only way to buy Rams these days are off private breeders that have good, solid lines.
MAC

[FishLover]

Well, last one is gone too. I went on a trip for a day and came back to find him dead. I guess MAC was correct. When it domes to rams, breader is very important.

[DiscusEden]

I'm sorry to hear that FishLover.

Does anyone know of any private breeders that would cut the grade?

[wickedglass]

you posted this under "Discus Tankmates" which was something I didn't pick up on before ... do you have them in with discus? if so, what's the temp on your tank?

[Dearra]

Yeah Chris, they were with Discus. The temperature is between 29-30. Could that have been the problem. was it too warm for them. But, having said that, they were in there for a couple of months.

[wickedglass]

sometimes it takes that long for the immune system to weaken a fish to a state where it is susceptible to fungal/bacterial/parasitic attacks. Rams don't go very well in high temp waters, they prefer the average of around 26 °C and a max of 28 °C. A lot of fish like their water to fluctuate somewhat through the year, especially dwarf cichlids. Small temperature fluctuations seem to strengthen their system and increase their lifespan. This is debatable, but I've noticed my dwarves to survive much better by not keeping them at a constant high temperature. in the ram's natural habitat the temperatures can range from below 24 °C to over 30 °C with 25-27 °C being the average. I kept losing them when I had them at 28 °C and over for longer periods of time when I first started keeping them about 12 years ago ... now I keep them at around 26 °C (the temp actually fluctuates naturally through the day) and they're breeding at that temp.
My feeling is that if you like rams very much, set up a tank for them or put them into a tank which has a lower temp than your discus tank.
There is the possibility that you may have had a weak inbred strain, but in all likelihood it was the prolonged exposure to the high temps ... or a combination of both.

[k9outfit]

Ummm... got a dumb question. :oops: If Rams and Cardinals for instance, come from the same source as the Discus, why is there such a discrepency in their temperature preferance? Or am I mistaken in thinking they are found in the same areas?

[fishgeek]

the amazon basin is hugh, hence variable temperatures and also water parameters as far as acidity and dissolved substances

equally altitude plays a part in average temperatures, as does depth of water and current

in a vast river system fish are able to choose a suitable area
http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope.htm
i think these area the guy's that had a lot of ecosystems logged for waters temperatures plants and fish etc

andrew

[wickedglass]

cardinals are a very far-ranging species, which the ram is not, the ram is territorial and localised, which means their area of distribution is smaller than that of a pelagic fish like the cardinal. cardinals are found from rivers in venezuela right down to manaus in brazil and therefore in a wider range of water conditions. The conditions particular to a certain fish are taken at the collecting site ... these conditions if looked at singly may not necessarily constitute optimal living parameters, but the readings of that particular moment.

water temperatures also vary widely, where even in a small stream you may see quite a large difference in water temperature in a very small area, depending on depth, flow and exposure of the various areas. cardinals also prefer faster waters than rams, which is reflected in their shape.