Eating eggs.

[Chris McMahon]

Well for the 3rd time in a row, my golden pigeon pair have eaten their eggs on day 3. I'd say that out of the 40 odd eggs, 30+ had little black dots (10 or so where white).

I bought this pair as a confirmed breeding pair so I was kind of expecting some results by the 3rd cycle. I believe they are 2+ years old and have breed successfully several times before I got them.

Should I leave them alone to sort it out?
Should I intervene?
Any ideas?

[flukes]

Weird one because if the were a confirmed pair the only thing that would make them eat the eggs is traffic near the tank, other fish or just getting used to their surroundings. Do they pic up any eggs in their mouth and put them back on the post?

That is normally a good sign of a good pair.
Id say leave them, might just be getting used to the new tank..

[Chris McMahon]

Weird one because if the were a confirmed pair the only thing that would make them eat the eggs is traffic near the tank, other fish or just getting used to their surroundings. Do they pic up any eggs in their mouth and put them back on the post?They are in a lower tank, about 5" above floor level. But they aren't in a traffic area, the only traffic they get is me feeding them 3 times a day. They were also in a ground level tank at their last home, so I don't think they are too worried about that. They have been in the tank about a month now, so they seem to have settled in ok, they wouldn't lay if they were nervous would they?

BTW they are using a discus cone to lay on.

I haven't noticed them "mouthing" the eggs, although they seem to "blow" water on them. Getting 2-3mm from them and puffing over them. I haven't actually caught them in the act of eating the eggs, so I can't say if it's the male, female or both.

[flukes]

Suppose all you can do is wait, they will get it right if not you might need to use mesh too cover the eggs.

[sunshinediscus]

Hi Chris,

Just because they are a confirmed breeding pair does not mean that every or even most spawns will be successful. Some pairs are better than others and all a confirmed pair means is they have had 1 or more successfull spawns.

If they keep eating the eggs then the next step is to protect the eggs from the pair, use some wire mesh to fashion a cover over the eggs that will stop the pair from eating them and see what happens from there. Another choice would be to remove one parent or the other, it's likely only 1 of them is eating them.

One thing you said in your post which has me wondering, you said you can see black dots forming, normally the eggs turn very dark all over by the 36+ hour mark and show more than just a black dot. Perhaps they are not fertile and thats why the pair are eating them. Anyway the cage protection will prove that one way or the other.

Scott,

Discus do not pick up eggs with the mouth and put them back on the post, at least that is something i have never seen or heard about in the time i have kept them. Have you actually seen them do this, or is it something you have read somewhere?? Thats what i like about discus, something new to learn every day.

Rod

www.lewisdiscus.com

[flukes]

The latest pair ive had who have been spawning for a long time, but only recently got too the attaching to parents stage. The red SSS woud pick up the eggs and spit them back on the pot, my water is slightly alkalinic (?) in this tank so the eggs sometimes have trouble sticking.

Most pairs do it with the wrigglers but he must have got it from doing it with them, and just started doing it with the eggs. He will pick up an egg that is a few cm's from the rest of the batch and move it back.

Now you have said that he is the only one out of my pairs that moves eggs, they all move wrigglers.

I just thought it was normal, most of the time once he takes it from the ground or the pot, it wont stick back on the pot and he plays for hours trying to get it too stick back on the pot.

When they spawn again i ll make a video just so people dont think iam nuts.. :wink:

[Chris McMahon]

you might need to use mesh too cover the eggs.

If they keep eating the eggs then the next step is to protect the eggs from the pair, use some wire mesh to fashion a cover over the eggs that will stop the pair from eating them and see what happens from there.Thanks flukes and Rod. I might try the mesh idea. What should I use for mesh? How close should it be to the cone?

Another choice would be to remove one parent or the other, it's likely only 1 of them is eating them.Unfortunately I don't have a space tank with room for another discus, apart from the community tank. I think I'll reserve seperation as a last resort.

One thing you said in your post which has me wondering, you said you can see black dots forming, normally the eggs turn very dark all over by the 36+ hour mark and show more than just a black dot. Perhaps they are not fertile and thats why the pair are eating them.I'll try to get a pic the next time they spawn.

Thanks Guys.

[sunshinediscus]

Hi Scott,

yes please do try and get a vid of him doing that to the eggs, i would love to see it. I was breeding albino angels at one time and the eggs never used to stick to the pot and the pair would pick them up and try and place them on the pot. Never worked as the eggs would fall back down but they still hatched out ok.

Rod

www.lewisdiscus.com

[sunshinediscus]

Chris,

Use some stainless mesh or some plastic gutter gaurd. I like the stainless mesh cause it is firmer and the pair will have difficulty moving it.

Rod

www.lewisdiscus.com

[Chris McMahon]

Ok, here's a pic of the latest batch of eggs. About 2 days old. I'm assuming the white ones aren't fertilised and the ones with a little dot are.

Rod - they are definitely a small dark nucleus surrounded by an opaque sack, rather that a solid dark color.

The pair always spawns the night before the tank's due for a water change :? (the last 3 times) so I skip the water change. My thinking being that they wouldn't lay if the water's not up to scratch, and the usual hoses and level variations of a change would just upset them, making it more likely to induce egg eating.

BTW I put a Royal Whiptail in there about a week ago to try and keep the algae down. Seems to be behaving itself. The cone has a slight algae staining, but it appears more cosmetic than anything. The sides and plants remain algae free since my last major clean a couple of weeks ago.

Update:They ate the eats again overnight on the 3rd day. :x I'm definately making a cover for the cone now.

[nicholas76]

Best of luck with those Chris

If thats day two then YEs they are fertile.


also for your info.

My melons ate there eggs the first 12 times prior to getting to wriggler stage.

Chris realistically, when ever you move a breeding pair you run the risk of having the fish simply shut shop and not breed again for awhile.

So putting it simply , buying a confirmed breeding pair is great , but if the conditions arent right or the fish havent settlled in , they simply may not produce. ( and somtimes its for good )

This is what I have found from personal experience. Rod you are very much correct in this instance.

Regards

NIck

[milt master p]

In the past I suspected a BN catfish eating the eggs. Removed it and eggs were fine. Maybe something worth trying - getting the whiptail out.

[Chris McMahon]

In the past I suspected a BN catfish eating the eggs. Removed it and eggs were fine. Maybe something worth trying - getting the whiptail out.They were eating the eggs long before I put the whiptail in. Plus the whiptail is doing a decent job of keeping the algae under control.

[Merrilyn]

Chris, parenting is a learned act with fish. It sometimes takes them a long time to get it 'right'. Ideally you would pair a young fish with a more experienced mate so they could learn, but that is not always possible. If they continue to eat the spawn, and the eggs are not fungused, then you might have to put a wire screen over the breeding cone. Once they see the wrigglers, the parenting instinct usually kicks in.