Breeding size

[fishnben]

I am planning on getting some Red Koi Angels from work and I was just wondering what size and/or age angels generally need to be to start breeding. These guys are around 5cm.

Cheers Ben

[fishnben]

I am still hoping someone can help me. I have never kept angels and this is something i am having trouble finding out.

Ben

[Merrilyn]

Phew, a little patience Ben. Some of us have day time jobs as well :lol:

Angels need to be around 4 to 6 months to breed, size ranging from slightly larger than a 50 cent coin and upwards.

[fishnben]

sorry abut the impatience lol, Thanks for that merrilyn. I really wanted to know before tomorrow so I can get a few nice ones from work. I move the fish out to the shop front tomorrow and wanted to get the pick of the bunch. There are a few with a nice shape and quite alot of red :D .

Cheers again ben

[Merrilyn]

Go for the redest ones you can find Ben.

Line breeding them will increase the amount of red on the body. You may even be the first to breed an all red angel. Now that would be something :P

Love to see some photos when you get them settled in. I'm pretty keen on the red kois myself.

[fishnben]

I have picked a few with the most amount of red there was. I'll let them settle for a week or so before I post a pic, although I put up a pick in my gallery of one.

Ben

[fishhead]

if your angels are true koi, you'll find line breeding tends to lose the red, out of 400 young only about 50 will show the original koi colour the rest will be gold marbled or black and white. you must breed koi with a orange headed black marble to maintain 100% koi coloured young which will maintain all the red colouring.

[DiscusMad]

you are realy a big kill joy fishhead all we can do is give things ago and see what happens

Good luck fishnben!

[fishhead]

Oh I don`t know I think fishnben joy would be a lot less when his beautiful reds turned out black and white young.I just saved him a lot of time and effort and gave him the info to produce hopefully even better more coloured young.I thought that was the idea of the forum.To help sorry if I`m wrong.

[fishnben]

Cheers for the info fishhead, I have never seen any of the orange head black marbles available from wholesalers or the forums in the country, do you know of any around. Although like discusmad said I can only give it ago.
Also does anyone know of any sites with some good angel genetics info or do they wish to post some genetics stuff in this forum?

Cheers Ben

[fishhead]

HI fishnben,I flooded the market 2or 3 years ago with orange headed black marbles to the point I couldn`t give them away,there should be some around as I sold about 8,000.I run a medium size fishfarm and what we can`t sell we don`t breed so I don`t have any at the moment.You may be able to produce some of your own by crossing a black marble with a gold angel.When Koi angels first hit our shores we spent years trying to breed them true,only by accident we found they must be crossed with a marbled.Our hatchery goal was to produce a solid red and a solid black Koi witch we hoped would be genetically stronger than the standed black.We suceeded with the black Koi(koi blood only)but after 5 years gave up on the red.we could produce a few but not in numbers.when we crossed two solid red together we get mainly black and white young.we tried many different blood lines crossing back forth without success.I`m not trying to put you off or trying to be a kill joy as stated,I`m hopeing my info will give you a starting point.Hope you do it.good luck.

[Merrilyn]

Thanks for the info Fishhead. Good to hear from someone with direct experience. How close did you get to producing a solid red?

Does this mean that the red colour is tied in with the marble gene, and without the marble, you lose the red colouring?

Are you located in Australia?

[fishnben]

yeah thanks for that fishhead, very interesting to hear from someone with some comercial breeding experience. It was helpful and good base knowledge. I am still a way off from breeding size so I will just have to wait and see. As Ladyred said it would be interesting to know where you are located.

cheers Ben

[fishhead]

HI everyone.Yes the red is without doubt tied in with the marbled gene. breeding two koi together resultes in a 90% loss of red. crossing koi with marbled resultes in 99.9%red koi. A solid red (well thats what they call them)only popped up approx. 1 in every 5000. bright red would cover three quarters of the body the remainder was yellow, fins yellow, and would have reflective patches. some specimens where yellow red (not bright red more orangeyellow)covered the entire body unfortunatly had many reflective patches. I have never seen a angel solid red, all had at least some reflective patches.I`ll give you some of our results reguarding other crosses we made using koi angels. koi x gold results in 99.9% gold marbled, with age most develope red heads. koi x leopard results in 100%leopard ,with age develop red heads with some black side markings. koi x platium results in black and white young, some with red not many.koi x black depending on gene pool usually results in some red koi mainly black and white. If you try to breed orange headed black marbled for crossing our results were. Black marbled x gold results in 99.9% gold marble o.1% red headed black marbled. these figures may very depending on genes but are usually very accurate. hope this helps, Oh yes I live in Queensland.

[Merrilyn]

Thanks for that info fishhead.

We really appreciate you time. :P

[DiscusMad]

sorry fishhead didn't know of your experiance just it wasn't call for me saying your a kill joy