gill fluke treatment?

[bushie]

what is the best treatment for gill flukes?

is it worth a precautionary dose?

is prazi a gill fluke treatment?

or is trichlorfon better?

????????

[fishgeek]

i think both work
praziquantel is a cestocidal(tapeworm) drug that is used against monogean and trematode's(flukes)
i believe it is fairly safe and has only recorded issue in marine fish

trichfloron is an organpohosphate(think most old insecticides) and is more likely to be toxic to fish

andrew

[bushie]

thanx buddy,

went for the prazi anyway but too late for my bd in the quarantine tank. :cry:

did notice some gill plate scratching in the display tank prior.

now to do the others

prazi safe with cats/ loaches?


R.I.P. little fella.
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/bushiesline/nano048.jpg
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/bushiesline/nano040.jpg

[sammigold]

Hi bushie,
sorry to hear about your little BD.

I cannot tell you about prazi and cattie/loaches...

I do know that Waterlife Sterazin can also be used for gill flukes and it can be used safely with Catties and loaches...

some people seem to wonder about the effectiveness of Sterazin... I suppose it seems to depend on the fish and maybe the size of the fluke infestation....

Hope that helps a little... at least it gives you another option..

[bushie]

thanks stevie :wink:

[sammigold]

LOL!!! No worries

[bushie]

does prazi affect fiters?

[Merrilyn]

No, it's supposed to be safe with filters.

[bushie]

thanx ladyred

[benjohnson]

sterazin seems to work ok for my discus , although I have heard conflicting reports on its efftiveness.

I have used it in my tank with a pair of Botia Loaches and they were ok

[Bill T]

In retrospect, I'm not absolutely sure that my fish had flukes, although they had the symptoms. I may have inflmaed their gills by messing with pH and panic stations medication.
In any case, sterazin did not relive the symptoms and when I increased the dose it nearly killed them.
After this I did heaps of water changes and then treated with prazi, and kept pH quite low for about 6 months. I've had no further fluke symptoms since.

[mtchye]

Prazi is the drug of choice for flukes. It is specific to flukes and thus has not antibacterial activity that may affect your filtration.

It is also difficult to overdose and has very few side effects. I have used it with clown, pakistani, skunk loaches and peppermint and normal bristlenoses, as well as larger plecos with no problems at the recommended dosage.

HTH

[samir]

the latest i've heard is that some flukes bury themselves deep into gill tissue and are covered by mucous, therefore its impossible to totally eradicate them. all drugs will control them to a certain extent, after which its up to the fish keeper to keep things under control by providing good water conditions. eventually in a closed system the fish will develop immunity to the flukes.
anybody care to shed some light on this ??

sorry to hear about you blue diamond. from the pictures it looks malnourished and has a bloated stomach so its probably some problem that has been there for a while. I doubt if it was flukes that killed it.

if you plan on buying a blue diamond again, don't buy one that has a bar in the tail or the eye.

[bushie]

hey samir, oh wise man of such great knowledge,( trying to find a smiley that signifies on bended knee, bowing with such respect)
(can`t find one, so cheeky wink will do) :wink:

thanx for the info, re gill flukes but since treating with prazi, all signs of gill rubbing has ceased. :D

interested to hear why you think it is malnourished though?
taking into account that it is a juvi.

also your observations regarding a bloated stomach?
if you look at any of my discus photos they all have full bellies as I usually take photo`s after feeding, as that seems to be the best time to keep them in front of the lens.
and as you can see by their bellies, they should not be malnutritioned.

you could be right on both counts though, as after treating with prazi, one of my other discus passed what I think is a tape worm.
(see : is this a tapeworm? thread in general discus questions)
would be interested in your views as no one else has commented as yet.
but that would explain malnutrition and bloated belly.
just wondering what you can see that I didn`t.
i.e. what is the difference between bloated belly and full belly?
what do I look for to see if my fish are malnutritioned even if they are eating like pigs all day?

thanx in advance mate

[bushie]

samir,
are you there?

bump!

[mistakes r crucial]

Hi Bushie,

Personally I can't see anything malnourished about your late BD. However, if that fish hasn't just been fed then I'd say it had a problem, maybe with worms or maybe something more clandestine as it does look bloated but no more than a healthy fish is just after a huge feed.

As far as drugs for gill fluke are concerned, Sterazin, IME, is about as useful as a knob of goat crap. It's also very expensive if you're running thousands of litres of water. Some strains of fluke we now get here are immune to commercial forms of Prazi but I have found the pure powder still gets shot of anything mine have had. There again, when I treat for flukes I hit them pretty hard as I want them outta there ASAP.

If you talk to pro breeders like Rod Lewis I think you'll find they use Trichorofon these days. It most certainly gets rid of gill flukes but it does knock your fish around compared to Prazi. There again, if you treat with Prazi at .8mg per litre instead of the recommended .5 that doesn't do 'em any favours either but it gets the job done.
MAC

[samir]

imo the eye is too big, and the area below the dorsal and above the anal fins look a bit skinny, giving the impression that the fins are larger. imo there was definitely something internally wrong with that fish, be it flagellates or worms.
here's a pic of LR's juveniles, see the size of the eye compared to the body.

[bushie]

thanx for that mac.

they shouldn`t be malnurished considering the belly loads of food they are consuming all day long.
unless he had some form of worm sucking the nutrients out of him.

I`d better start a regular medication routine on the little guys.
prevention is better than cure.

[bushie]

g`day samir,

I can`t compare my fish with that of you or lady red etc etc.

the fish you show are direct from a breeder into grow out tanks, or bred and raised by the breeder.

mine are generally from LFS after sitting in thier tanks for weeks( not getting fed) , prior to sitting in quarantine tanks and being shipped around the country and /or from over seas to east coast to perth.
just not ideal situation for getting optimal growth I spose.

but having said that, your observations make sense.

will have to try to get better growth out of the next batch.

any tricks to getting better growth from the little guys.

currently feeding,
frozen blood worms,
frozen brine shrimp,
krill,
discus mix,
community mix.
two different flake foods.
sera discus granules (which they don`t seem to eat).
shrimp pellets.
and frozen peas, sliced zuchini and pumpkin 9 mostly for the peppies).
also feed live black worm and live brine.
feeding different foods about 5- 7 times a day.
never the same foods twice in a day.

thanx for your comments

and I will look for signs of internal parasites closer in future.

[mistakes r crucial]

To be fair Samir you did say malnourished and not stunted. The BD looks borderline stunted (about 4-5 eye depths) which could be attributable to all sorts such as ammonia/nitrite exposure, inadequate water conditions by the breeder etc etc etc and nothing at all to do with the present owner. If he's feeding 5-7 times a day I think he's doing a fine job and a darn sight better than I can manage. If you're feeding that much Bushie I hope you're changing plenty of water!
MAC

[samir]

seems like you haven't seen pics of my blue diamonds, they have pretty big eyes. I know what you mean with most lfs discus. its important to quarantine fish properly.
I've started over from scratch a couple of times. it is still possible to get good fish, you just have to get a bit fussy and not buy something unless its in perfect health and good quality. never buy a fish with dark eyes or one that does not come up to you.
imo we all need to become picky and difficult when it comes to buying discus otherwise the general quality will never improve. never feel sorry for a fish. I have done that often and its always turned out bad.
your feeding seems good, maybe you need to change water more. how about some pics of the others ?

[Bill T]

I had this situation with my little darlings a while ago. Eating like little pigs, but not putting on weight.
Eventually found they all had some intestnal parasite, so they had to compete with this for nutrition. Once I got that cleared up they got much better, put on weight, and whilst still very active at feeding time, seemed to know when they were full.

[Merrilyn]

Bushie, you're doing a great job with your fish, if you're feeding that wonderful variety of food up to 7 times a day.

The only thing I don't agree with, is the feeding of live blackworms. I know there's a lot of differing opinions on whether or not they carry gill flukes, but IMO if there is some doubt, then I won't use them.

All juvenile fish should be regularly wormed. Whilst an adult can easily cope with a worm or two in the gut, for a juvenile it's a disaster. The worms can multiply and block the gut, causing bloating and death. I'm not saying that's what happened to your BD, simply that it's a possibility.

We've got some excellent breeders in this country, who have started with good quality stock, and are now breeding quality home bred juveniles. Wherever possible, we should encourage these breeders by buying locally rather than accepting some of the second rate fish that find their way into the country, just because they are cheap.