Final (I hope) list for 6 foot tank

[DiscusEden]

Hi guys,

I've had some time to think about this, so I'm wanting to check this should be OK (tank is 6 foot, 540 litres):

8 discus, all different
25 cardinals
1 pair Bolivian rams
3 pair blue rams
1 pair gold rams
4 pair emperor tetras
2 male peppermint bristlenose
4 female peppermint bristlenose
1 pair royal whiptail catfish

Is this bioload OK?

I'm running the overhead filter (Aquaone AR180) and the Eheim ProII 2028. I should have the CO2 system up before the fish go in, ands it will be planted. I'm planning lots of caves, pots and I've got a 4 1/2 foot piece of driftwood (thanks Seaview!).

Will the tankmates get on OK in those numbers? I know many of them can be territorial within their own species.

Any other suggestions guys? Will this be OK in the top levels, or will it be a bit bare?

I thought about a pair (or 2) of Apistos, but read that they might need a lower temperature and they may have TB. Is this true, or could I fit in a pair or 2?

Do I need some corys to turn over the sand, or would they just eat any eggs that were laid (more than the bristlenose would)? I know I can't breed discus in this setup, but was hoping to get some of the emperor tetras going.

Sorry about the long post, and TIA,
DiscusEden :wink:

[fish_r]

tank sounds great DE :)
i'm not sure on the bio load or about the rams, but every thing else sounds sounds good, what kind of substrate are u going to use, sand ? i would definately get a good substrate, or at least make sure u add latralite or something similar to the sand.
put 5 julii corys in my tank a few weeks ago and i love em :) so hypo and good cleaners.
also if u have the room at least a cpl of SAE would be good for any hair algae clean ups, but get em small as u can, going to get rid of mine soon as there too big and lazy...

[DiscusEden]

Thanks for the reply fish_r.

I've put the substrate in - red sea flora base, under pool filter sand. I've got flourish to put in, and Kh up. Don't know what else I'll need, but I've got the driftwood in, and the tank cycling on pure ammonia now.

I'll have to wait afew weeks before putting fish in, but I'd like to sort what I'm going to get, so I can start sourcing them.

Do I need corys as a cleanup crew do you think?

I might hold off the SAE until I need them, as the last ones doubled their size each week, and were useless for BBA after about 4 weeks. Big fat eels. Mind you, there was a lot in there.

Thanks again for the reply,
DiscusEden

[DiscusEden]

Anyone willing to give an opinion on whether this is too many fish, not enough, or too many of a particular species?

I'm thinking particularly about whether this is too many rams? Or can I fit more in?

Thanks guys!

[gingerbeer01]

Personally I would drop the amount of rams as can be territorial. Also would drop bolivian rams alltogether - mostly cause I don't like them and they tae up tankspace for nicer fish - being the rams. Maybe 2 pair only, and pick the best you can find regardless of whether gold or blue - rams are not racist :lol: My piar is a gold male and a blue female - mainly as I like blues and can;t find any good enough and found a good gold male. Wll breed them and try and breed some nice blues.

Also I would get rid of bristlenose for a planted tank as they can cause hell to plants. Whiptails are a good choice as are otto's.

I have white tip tetras in my tank with discus pair of rams and apistos. In my tnak I find the tetras annoy me as they are too big and scary for the discus. I also have some sparkling gourami and they are cute but actually quite nasty characters.

SAE's again get too big and active for a discus tank.

Oh and best thing to do is get tank set and working with tetras - then add discus - then add rams and other cichlids.

Anyway that is what I reckon for what it is worth.

Sounds like a top tank you are setting up there. Enjoy.

Steve

Steve

[SandyLynne]

I absolutely love Bolivian Rams (Bolivian Butterflys) and have 7 in with my Discus and they have just laid eggs for the first time. Below are a couple of pics I took in Nov 06

I also have

Ottos - I find rather useless
Clown loaches - do a fantastic job keeping snails at bay but grow very quickly
Bristlenose - love them but now moved to their own tank and breeding like crazy
Apple Snails - have them in all of my tanks
Corys - great for cleaning bottom
White tip ornate tetras - add a little colour but would not get them again
Rummynose - look great in large groups but slowly diminishing
Cardinals - look great in large groups but slowly diminishing
Siamese Algae Eaters - grow very quickly then get lazy
Glass Catfish - Love them but no colour added to tank
Dwarf Honey Gouramis - kept dying on me, down to one :cry:
Hatchets - kept dying on me :cry:
Halfbeak - kept dying on me :cry:
Blue Rams - kept dying on me :cry:

I have had my large tank for 16 months now and have changed my taste in fish and made plenty of mistakes. I originally wanted lots of different fish in a community planted tank. I forgot the substrate and expected my plants to grow in gravel :oops:

I had to redo my tank and used JBL substrate covered with pool filter sand and Seachem ferts. Plants are thriving, my tank now looks like a jungle.

In the future I want an 8x2x2 and want only discus display tank. I loved my community tank for a long time but now need a change. I saw a tank that was 8x2x2 and had discus, some other large long fish and all anubias. Gee it looked fantastic and this is what I hope to have. I must find out what these other fish were though. Hmmm Gar fish come to mind?

[DiscusEden]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the replies.

I love your tank SandyLynne! I'm glad you've had success with the Bolivians SandyLynne, 'cos I've got my heart set on getting a pair, but thought I might stop at one, because I want to save space for the blues. I've heard they can be touchy, but they're so pretty I'm determined to try.

I had problems keeping gouramis alive in my last tank too, but the first 3 was because of a particularly aggressive platy (he chased one of them into a hole in a rock that he jammed himself in), and I think the other developed TB due to the stress of being picked on by my extremely large angel.

I'm a bit reluctant to get TB in the tank again, which is the only thing slowing me on the apistos.

Do you think maybe 2 pairs of blues and one of golds, with one pair Bolivians might be alright, or does Steve have a point and I should stick with 2 pair all up?

I'm reluctant to get ottos as I've read about them sucking on discus & I like the look of the peppermints.

Thanks again for all the advice! What do you think guys?

[gingerbeer01]

SandyLynne,

Great pictures of bolivians. They would be amongst the best I have seen.

Here is a picture of my Rams with babies in the community tank

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/gingerbeer/Picture001-1.jpg

To keep Rams you have got to get good ones to start off with. If you get good ones they will breed and keep you very happy, others will die pretty quick.

I haven't heard of ottos causing problems for discus. Interested to hear more about this.

Once Rams mature they will fight quite spectacularly. That is why I only have a pair in my 6 footer.

These guys inthis picture are father and son. Were fine until son decided to try and take over from Dad. Had to seperate. This was in a four footer bare bottom.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v498/gingerbeer/Dsc00195.jpg

Steve

[SandyLynne]

When I bought the bolivians they were very plain looking at the LFS. But they must be happy in my tank as their colour are amazing. My husband had 2 in a small tank and they never coloured up with one eventually dying. I removed the other from his tank and placed it in mine and the colours are now vibrant so perhaps my water parameters are perfect for Bolivians.

As I said I have 7 in my tank and have no problems at all with them. They can appear to be aggressive towards each other but are all bluff and are a great addition to my tank. They are not agrressive to any other fish in my tank.

I love Blue Rams and thought they were far more colourful than Bolivians but unfortunately did not have any luck at all & lost 8 of them :cry: But personally now I think Bolivians are just as beautiful if not more than Blue Rams and far easier to keep, this is just my experience.

BTW thank you for the compliments. I have attached a photo of my tank taken this morning. Still a work in progress but it is certainly far better than 6 months ago. :lol:

[scott bowler]

that look awesome sandy you have done well nice plants and fish .nice and clean to well done hope you had a good new year take care

[DiscusEden]

I've just been wondering how to get the contents of your tank into my tank - it looks fantastic sandy. I love the pictures of those rams too. I had my doubts about the Bolivians, but after seeing your beautiful pictures I want, I want.

Maybe 2 pairs Bolivians, 2 blue and one gold - if they end up getting aggressive & going to a friend, so be it, but i want to try first - with pleanty of plants, caves & hidey holes.

Hmmm, how many tanks can I fit in here?

Thanks guys! I love the pictures!

[Robdog]

Like gingerbeer said, I'd scrap the Bolivians in favour of the Blue rams. But if you are hell bent on Bolivians (some can grow up to be beautiful fish) I wouldn't get the Blue or gold rams.
As for the Emp. Tetras, I have a group of about 8 consisting of 4 male, 4 female. In hindsight I should have got 2 males and 6-8 females. Only the females really school together while the males are too busy showing off and displaying at each other. Other than that I love them.
SAE get too big and lazy as and algae eater. I have one that is 3.5 inch and he thinks he is a male kribensis. Always swimming with my lone female and doing little courting dances. About as effective at eating algae as a kribensis too.
Stick with the peps and the whiptails and give the ottos a chance.
HTH

[DiscusEden]

Thanks Robdog,
I appreciate you coming in on this one.

I might have to re-think the male/female proportions on the emperors - read that these display, but don't do any damage to each other. What are yours up to? I'm not needing them to school so much, as I'm counting on the cardinals doing that. I'm looking to get some more interest/activity at the bottom of the tank. Where did you get yours from?

Do the bolivians compete with the blue/golds? Just wondering why you'd advise that? I saw a display tank in Adelaide at a store that had both, which is why I thought it might work, but it was extremely heavily planted. Maybe that's how they got away with it? Or maybe since it was a store they just kept replacing the casualties?

I'm with you on the rest, although I want to hold off getting ottos & see if I need them with the UV steriliser and the peps and whiptails first. I live in hope. Or denial.

Do you think the numbers are OK? Can I go up or do I have to go down on any of them?

Will there be a vacancy at the top of the tank? If so, what would you suggest?

Thanks again for letting me pick your brain!

[Robdog]

...do I have to go down on any of them?

:shock: :? It might get them in the spawning mood but probably not necessary! :lol: :lol:
Just joking. I reckon your levels would be fine with that many fish in a 6ft. As long as you cycle it properly which it sounds like you already are.

The only reason I steered away from the bolivians was purely personal preference. Wherever I see them they always look scrawny and malnourished and have never really tempted me. But looking at SandyLynne's pictures gives me some hope. If you combine them with the blue/gold rams you'll have plenty of activity at the base of the tank. Especially if some decide to spawn. If that becomes the case then I'd probably allow about 1ft of tank space per pair.

As for tetras, cardinals will take up your middle to bottom strata. I think they go with the 'strength in numbers' rule. The more you have, the higher in the water column they will venture. Emperors however will cover the entire tank and they do look great when they display

[DiscusEden]

Thanks. Oops. And here's me thinking it's a family forum.

And thanks for the fish help too. Now I have a shopping list. When's xtreme open? 9/1/07? Yipee!

Ooh, could I get 30 cardinals and still have a safe bioload? Being very careful about wording now.

[Robdog]

25 or 30, not much difference. If you were thinking something like 50+ then maybe I'd think about losing some other occupants. Maybe not for bioload issues but just from a visual point.
Big schools of cardinals in big tanks by themselves look awesome but when combined with other fish they can get scattered around by the other occupants.

[DiscusEden]

Thanks Robdog - I now have a plan. A cunning plan. A plan so cunning you could stick a tail on it and call it a weasel.

I've really appreciated all of your help guys, thanks!

Off to go cycle on the exercise bike in front of the tank now, in the hope the tank will get the idea and cycle faster.

[Robdog]

Keep us posted on how it goes. It'd be good to see how it progresses.

[SandyLynne]

Go the Bolivians :wave1

[DiscusEden]

Yay!

[Robdog]

Update?

[DiscusEden]

Hey Robdog. Love the picture thing. But I'll think of you as Steve Irwin forever.

I've put the order in, and I'm waiting for the tank to finish cycling and the quote to come back for the fish before spending any more, although I've just discovered I'm upgrading the lights as well as trying to get the CO2 system in before they arrive. I'm very excited about all of this - if I ever get living things in this tank it'll look fantastic!

Will keep you all posted - and somewhat harrassed.

Thanks again for all of your help!