Nematode infection: treatment advice urgently needed

[parkap]

Hi All,

Can anyone advise what treatment to use for a nematode infection? It looks to have come into my 6x2x2 display tank via my Apistogramma bitaeniata's and ahs now psread to at least my angels, if not more of the apisto's. The male bitaeniata died on the weekend, but I managed to fish him out before then. The female is stillin the tank avoiding capture.

She has little red tubicles/fibres sticking out of her rectum, so am sure it's a nematode infection.

What do I use to treat this and where can I get it from?

Regards,
Peter.

[Merrilyn]

Levamisole is what you need, treating at the rate of 1ml per 7 litres of water.

You can buy "Big L Pig and Poultry Wormer" made by Sykes at most feed and grain stores. Anywhere they sell horse or greyhound products should carry it.

There are also bird wormer products that contain levamisole, but take care, they often contain glucose which will cause a huge bacterial bloom in your tank, so be sure to read the ingredients carefully.

A follow up dose 7 days later is recommended.

[fishgeek]

levamisol should be used at 1-2mgs per litre of tank water
so depending on the strength of the product sourced you may be using different volumes
the 7.5% solution i use is 75mgs/ml and so only 1 ml is needed in 50 litres

andrew

[Merrilyn]

Okay, now I'm confused.

Andrew, a little help if you please.

This is a bottle of Big L showing the amount of active ingredient.

Would you please calculate the correct dose for us.

[samir]

14g/litre = 14mg/ml

1 ml / 7 litres
would be 2mg/litre. :wink: unless its been to long since I last went to math class.

[Merrilyn]

Thanks Samir. I thought my calculations were right. But it's important to have it confirmed..

Thanks :P

[fishgeek]

thats why it is important to put dose's in mgs/l as strenght of parent solution can vary and hence (someone here once bought the cow wormer) the volume dose is different

[parkap]

Thanks everyone. My LFS recommended the bird treatment, mentioned above.

We've ordered it from the supplier and it should be arriving by mail today.

I've isolated my angels but cannot find the female A.bitaeniata anywhere. If she dies in the main tank, I've got 120+ gold mystery snails in there that will eat up the remains pretty quick. Do these things spread in the water after the fish is dead?

I was going to treat the whole tank but the LFS said I had to remove all snails and catfish, including my peppermints and borneo suckers, something that just isn't possible without stripping the whole tank down. So I'm trying targeted capture and isolation. What are the risks with this given I can't find the A.bitaeniata anymore?

Thanks again,
p.

[fishgeek]

camallanus has a complex life cycle in general ( i have read contary somewhere on this site previously)
that means that it will use inveterbrate intermediate hosts - then the fish eats these
because these are not in the tank of mst hbbiest's the worm seems to have managed to assume a direct life cycle ie fish to fish transmission is possible , though only for a limited number of life cycles

if you feed live food then they can be a vector

generally speaking i would be cautious with the avian wormer and prehaps use a short term dip at higher concentrations as there may be glucose or other carbohydrates within the solution that may encourage bacterial blooms in the main tank

andrew

[parkap]

Thanks Andrew.

I'm only going to use the avarian treatment on the isolated angels in the hostpial tank at this point, so the blooms shouldn't be a problem or else will be easily handled, through a high % water change. This treatment will do at least for the short term until I get my hands on the other treatment mentioned above.

As much as I can avoid it, I'm not going to treat the main tank. I'll monitor all the inhabitants for a few weeks to see if any other become infected.

I'm also not feeding any live food at the moment.

Appreciate your help.

Peter.

[sammigold]

Just for information sake.... I have used levamisole (the Big 'L' Pig and poultry one) and it did not affect my pleco, b/n, gibbicep or clown Loaches. I researched very thoroughly to find out what affect it would have if any on my fish and all these fish that are normally susceptible to meds were fine using the standard dose of 1ml per 7 litres. HTH

I cannot speak for the avian form but I can for Big L.

[fishgeek]

the active ingredient is (in researched literature) very safe
it is paralysing agent that works on nictonic receptors and also alter energy metabolism in nematodes
these affects will occur in fish at higher dose's and hence the inappetance and darkening of colour at high dosage that has been recorded

I know that there are some bad reports about levamisol , i have not read anything published in a scientific text to support these internet claims

I have seen dose's upto 10mgs/l claimed as being used on the internet, gain not supported by anything i have read in print

Levamisol is also thought to be an immunomodulator and is now widely usedt o support human patients whilst undergoing chemotherapy regimes

As far as waiting on signs , most of these worm problems are hard to see until they are well advanced, infection was recorded in approx 7% of wild caught fish , it is only once increased numbers in stressed fish occur that debilitation occurs
I would if you are happy with the product try and treat most of your fish , either in the main tank or not
I have only experienced this problem once and i lost the first fish to it , it slowly worked through my main tank until i had sourced medication and treated it ..in my case the problem had a 6 week head start and after 1 tank treatment and no gravel vacumning i saw it never again
again ancedotal

andrew

[parkap]

Sammi and Andrew,

Thanks for this. It looks like my peppermints and borneo suckers might be ok if I use Big L, then. Given that, I might treat the main tank. I'll see how things develop.

Will this treatment kill my gold mystery snails?

p.

[fishgeek]

i dont know
i would have guess'd that lower order mollusc have more likely chance of sharing similar neuromuscular transmitters and energy metabolism
then again no efficacy claims against flukes or other organsisms... just the nematodes

try a mystery snail in a cup with a small dose of levamisol and find out for yourself

andrew

[samir]

I know that there are some bad reports about levamisol , i have not read anything published in a scientific text to support these internet claims


I do on occasion get very bad reactions when using levimasole, the fish get very skittish and go absolutely psyco when anyone approaches the tank, also they go completely off food for a few days.

A couple of times I have ended up with very badly damaged fish after a levimasole treatment. On transferring them to a clean tank they return to normal quite rapidly.

On other occasions (which is most of the time) I have had no problems at all. :? Do you think it has something to do with water chemistry ? I haven't been worming my fish lately, because I am too petrified to do it unless I find a suitable alternate.

what about using it in a food mix ?

[Merrilyn]

This thread contains some very valuable information. I'm making it a sticky.

Many thanks to all for their valuable input.

[catfishbone]

hi all,

does levamisloe have any side effects on aquarium plants ???
i thought i read from somewhere that levamisole will do no good to your aquarium plants ... any input ??

cheers,

andrie

[Merrilyn]

From my experience, it does no harm to aquarium plants.

[catfishbone]

thanks ladyred ... :)

[fishgeek]

levamisol is known to cause anorexia at higher dose's so inappetance would be direct drug effect

change in behaviour may have something to do with change in water parameter when medication is added?
anyone tested things like ammonia? etc pH anything else that may fluctuate with medication

andrew

[mistakes r crucial]

Hi Andrew,

It's well documented what I think of the drug but the last couple of times I've used it I've checked water twice daily to try and see what it is that freaks them out and whether it's something I'm doing as opposed to the drug. I didn't do anything differently and I didn't notice any difference in water params whatsoever but what I did notice is that the adults did not bat an eyelid. The juves on the other hand (4-6 month old), as normal, went beserk every time I went near the tank. The adults that I have in my growout system at the moment are the same fish that were treated with Levamisole several times over 18 months and the very ones that gave me my opinion on Levamisole.

I wonder whether they get used to it or as they grow up into adults their internal systems are better able to handle drugs like Levamisole. I must admit at being very surprised at the result because as always, I was expecting all of them to go off food for a few days and be very jumpy to say the least.
MAC